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Gluconeogenesis and ammonia

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created October 27, 2010 at 8:08 PM

What are your thoughts? I got the perfect health diet ebook yesterday, and they recommend about 400-600 calories of glucose a day because of its protein sparing effects and also gluconeogenesis creates ammonia, a toxin. Also, strenuous on the liver, which could be detoxifying other things.

A231170e329756974c79cd8d2116351c

(103)

on November 04, 2010
at 03:35 PM

To clarify... The authors claim that excess gluconeogenesis is for some stressful to the liver (dovetails w what Robb Wolf says re: the body releasing some cortisol to create glucose during a ketogenic diet?). Other claims: glucose is used in the creation of beneficial glycoproteins, e.g. hyaluronan (not AGEs but structural molecules), and by immune cells to create ROS for immune defense. (Free radical v. antioxidant controversy?) Their position is that wild omnivorous mammals tend to get something 20-25% of their calories from glucose, so thisstrategy might be optimal for humans also.

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on October 28, 2010
at 03:19 AM

So what you are saying is the statement about what it says in the book is totally inaccurate?

149af6e19a06675614dfbb6838a7d7c0

(3202)

on October 28, 2010
at 01:53 AM

I havent read it. You said they recommended 400-600 calories of glucose a day. I am commenting on that. Eating glucose is not protein sparing. The more glucose you eat, the more glucose you burn. If you are a ketone burner you spare protein. If you are a sugar or glucose burner you are a protein waster. Gluconeogenisis...you will convert your protein stores into your prefered fuel...glucose.

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1

(7304)

on October 27, 2010
at 11:35 PM

I see you haven't actually read it. They are recommending no more than 200 calories of starch a day, unless an athlete. I was just wondering if people had heard anything else on gluconeogenesis not being ideal, and if there was anything to the claim that we probably shouldn't eat very low carb.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on October 27, 2010
at 09:28 PM

Their book is actually really good moderate carb paleo.

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3 Answers

1
62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on October 28, 2010
at 03:27 AM

So if a gram of sugar contains 4 calories, then 400 to 600 calories of sugar would be about 100 to 150 grams of sugar per day (or some equivilent starch source). Doesn't seem like a super ton of sugar really and should be enough to mostly keep out of ketosis while still not being a total carb pig. I don't think we know enough yet to determine if a lot of ketosis is really best for everyone. Certainly, I have talked to a lot of people, especially females, who seem to have problems if they go very low carb for a long period of time (like months or years). Whereas other people do great. There is much we still don't understand.

0
4e40d2b9e1a762949a25b958762aa10d

(762)

on October 31, 2010
at 12:32 PM

Assuming normal kidney and liver function, your body can easily handle the by products of gluconeogenesis. In fact, some ammonia in your blood is beneficial because it prevents bacteria from multiplying. (At higher levels it would kill them, but also us.)

Perhaps you should limit protein intake to the amount you need and following Kurt Harris or Peter @ Hyperlipid replace the carbs with fat. Most human subject studies I've read show a positive nitrogen balance when daily protein intake exceeds 0.5 g/lb regardless of activity in healthy subjects (The researchers assumed the body wouldn't excrete nitrogen if it needed more of it.) That's less than, say 1 g/lb. But, those are the data.

0
149af6e19a06675614dfbb6838a7d7c0

on October 27, 2010
at 09:06 PM

Glucose is the toxin you want to avoid most. We carry 1 teaspoon of glucose in the bloodstream at any time. More than that is TOXIC. AGEs are Advanced Glycation End-products. Glycation comes from Glucose. If you want to damage your body, eat lots of glucose. Gluconeogenisis is the breakdown of proteins in the muscle and bones to feed your body's sugar habit. If you are a sugar (glucose) burner, you will use gluconeogenisis while you are asleep and in-between meals. STOP eating sugars SUCH AS GLUCOSE, TURN ON INSULIN SENSITIVE LIPASE and burn ketones for energy. You will preserve your muscles and bones. Who put out this book, the 30 Bananas a Day crowd?

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1

(7304)

on October 27, 2010
at 11:35 PM

I see you haven't actually read it. They are recommending no more than 200 calories of starch a day, unless an athlete. I was just wondering if people had heard anything else on gluconeogenesis not being ideal, and if there was anything to the claim that we probably shouldn't eat very low carb.

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on October 28, 2010
at 03:19 AM

So what you are saying is the statement about what it says in the book is totally inaccurate?

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on October 27, 2010
at 09:28 PM

Their book is actually really good moderate carb paleo.

149af6e19a06675614dfbb6838a7d7c0

(3202)

on October 28, 2010
at 01:53 AM

I havent read it. You said they recommended 400-600 calories of glucose a day. I am commenting on that. Eating glucose is not protein sparing. The more glucose you eat, the more glucose you burn. If you are a ketone burner you spare protein. If you are a sugar or glucose burner you are a protein waster. Gluconeogenisis...you will convert your protein stores into your prefered fuel...glucose.

A231170e329756974c79cd8d2116351c

(103)

on November 04, 2010
at 03:35 PM

To clarify... The authors claim that excess gluconeogenesis is for some stressful to the liver (dovetails w what Robb Wolf says re: the body releasing some cortisol to create glucose during a ketogenic diet?). Other claims: glucose is used in the creation of beneficial glycoproteins, e.g. hyaluronan (not AGEs but structural molecules), and by immune cells to create ROS for immune defense. (Free radical v. antioxidant controversy?) Their position is that wild omnivorous mammals tend to get something 20-25% of their calories from glucose, so thisstrategy might be optimal for humans also.

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