2

votes

How should a soccer athlete with gut issues approach paleo?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created November 28, 2010 at 4:01 PM

I have been paleo for about 4 months, and I consume grass fed meats, chicken, lots of fish, low carb veggies, olive oil, coconut oil. I avoid fruits, starch, nuts and dairy. I have a suspicion that I might have a candidal overgrowth. My tests revealed a dysbiosis of sorts but showed my yeast levels were under control. Are all gut dysbioses a sign of candida?

Anyways my soccer performance has suffered tremendously, and I was wondering if I should maybe increase my carbs to 100grams by adding a sweet potato or two and maybe a bit of blueberries? Or will that be bad for my gut? Like I said before I have been following a very limited diet for four months with no improvement in my symptoms. Any ideas?

Db4e2062cad50ab5042dfc5685c3e06d

(109)

on November 29, 2010
at 04:22 PM

Good man! Also forgot to mention that my skin improves far better with vit D and omega 3 supplements (D only 2,400 iu but its a start and n3 at 520mg per day)

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on November 29, 2010
at 03:12 PM

Oh wow, that was a real eye opener. I had tests from two of the company mentioned, neuroscience, for food allergies, and Geneva Diagnostics for my stool test. This doesn't change the fact that there is something wrong with my immune/digestive system, but now I just don't know what to do. Should I take another test, or should I attempt to cure myself blindly. Thanks.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on November 29, 2010
at 03:04 PM

Thanks. I am almost 100% sure I consume no gluten at all. I am very picky about where my meat comes from, and rarely by store bought stuff or things with more than two ingredients. But like you said this takes time, maybe four months isn't enough. And yes, I agree soccer is such an ugly name, FOOTBALL is it's rightful name.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on November 29, 2010
at 11:14 AM

I'm sorry to say that the test you had done was a scam, please ignore the results as they are meaningless. Lactobacilii are hard to detect in stool tests and everyone has many Bacilli bacteria species in their gut. I really hate companies like that, they confuse and worry well meaning people like yourself unnecessarily and take your money. Here is some reading on the subject http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=4768

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on November 29, 2010
at 01:35 AM

I got a stool test from Geneva Diagnostics, at the top of the results it says Microbiology. It says I have zero production of Lactobacillus and overgrowth of Bacillus (PP or potential pathogen) but it doesn't say which one.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on November 29, 2010
at 12:14 AM

What stool test did you get done? They are good for identifying disease causing pathogens but pretty useless for telling anything usefull about the levels of normal gut bacteria. Did it say which Bacillus species is was?

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on November 29, 2010
at 12:14 AM

What stool test did you get done? They are good for identifying disease causing pathogens but pretty useless for telling usefull about the levels of normal gut bacteria. Did it say which Bacillus species is was?

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on November 28, 2010
at 11:41 PM

Thanks ED for the heads up on that thread. Nope, I haven't tried any antifungals on my skin because my whole life I have used chemicals on my face and I finally decided I needed to give my skin a rest. Currently I am trying coconut oil, so I'll see where that takes me.

6426d61a13689f8f651164b10f121d64

(11478)

on November 28, 2010
at 11:38 PM

(1) Sea salt may be lower in iodine than table salt ( http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/sea-salt/AN01142 ). (2) Here's a previous thread about keratosis pilaris ( http://paleohacks.com/questions/3397/keratosis-pilaris/3418#3418 ) with some potentially helpful answers. (3) Seborrheic dermatitis is sometimes related to an overgrowth of yeast in the skin, but this may not be related to yeast in the digestive system (systemic yeast). Have you tried topical Nizoral (ketoconazole) lotion?

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on November 28, 2010
at 10:36 PM

I supplement iodine by consuming sea salt. One of the main reasons I am also doing this diet besides, fixing my digestion, and my overall health, is because I have been plagued with keratosis pillaris and seb derm all over my face, and for me an indication of my health improving would be my skin improving.

6426d61a13689f8f651164b10f121d64

(11478)

on November 28, 2010
at 10:04 PM

@ROB, what kinds of tests did you get to diagnose dysbiosis? IMO candidal overgrowth tends to be over-diagnosed. I would view both holistic and allopathic testing with a healthy dose of skepticism. You sound very active, so your ~3150 calorie intake (based on your reported macronutrients) may be inadequate. Also, you may need to supplement iodine.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on November 28, 2010
at 08:00 PM

Ah yes, Paul Jaminet, his information, in fact, was what prompted me to ask this question. He, unlike many other healing diets, recommends starch, which I thought was a plus for me, because of my physical requirements. But I am still a bit hesitant on whether or not starch (from sweet potatoes) is bad for the gut. I have decided to ask Dr. Ayers and just waiting on his response.

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1

(7304)

on November 28, 2010
at 07:52 PM

paul jaminet at perfect health diet seems to know quite a bit about fungal infections. you may want to ask him your question

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on November 28, 2010
at 07:25 PM

Thanks a lot for your input. But I do consume lots of fat. I consume about 270grams of fat daily, 130 grams of protein, and carbohydrates usually don't go over 50grams. I have began reading some of Dr. Ayers stuff, and its really fascinating information. I will keep you guys updated. There is still a lot of confusion in my mind whether or not a gut dysbiosis automatically equals candida. My tests revealed no yeast overgrowth, but I do have various fungal infections throughout my body.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on November 28, 2010
at 07:07 PM

Thanks for that. I knew I shouldn't have expected quick results.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on November 28, 2010
at 07:05 PM

It will take 3-6 months to get your vit d3 level up to 60-70 ng/ml taking 5000IU a day. I started at 10000IU for 6 months and then backed off to 5000IU to keep my level at optimum.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on November 28, 2010
at 06:42 PM

Aaron, many of the road biker community I have talked to seem to have very low cholesterol levels (140 to 170) and use it as a badge of good health. But there is lots of evidence that VL cholesterol does not lead to long life. In fact, TC around 250-275 seems prevalent for longevity as this seems to corolate with being able to ward off diseases. However these road bikers are all carb loaders and not paleo. Have you seen this? Any evidence that biker paleos have higher cholesterol levels?

1cbb6b2a813475d6c0b17fd5e898dc50

(1248)

on November 28, 2010
at 06:20 PM

Agreed. A lot of paleo beginners just don't understand how much fat is needed for fuel. Once you grasp the fact that fat is good you'll have plenty of energy. I am a road biker and have plenty of energy (75% of my cals are from fat) for 40 mile (about 2 hours) rides easily, now, a century is a different story.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on November 28, 2010
at 04:35 PM

I must admit I am more scared of white rice than a sweet potato hahaha. I will try to play around with it, to see if I see an improvement in physical fitness and my gut dysbiosis. There is so much conflicting information on the internet, making it hard to come to a conclusion.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on November 28, 2010
at 04:22 PM

Thanks for the answer. I have just begun supplementing a probiotic, and vitamin D a week ago, but I still don't feel any change. Of course these things could take time. I have thought about adding a sweet potato, but there is still than fear that I might be feeding something nasty in my system. But four months of very LC hasn't helped my cause either.

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5 Answers

1
06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on November 28, 2010
at 06:06 PM

Dr Art Ayers at http://coolinginflammation.blogspot.com/search?q=gut+dysbiosis He is convinced that most diseases of civilization are caused gut flora being less than optimal. Roam around his site for a lot of enlightment about gut flora.

He does advocate inulin products...which are artichokes, jerusalem artichokes, jicama, burdock root, chicory and pectin to heal the gut. I mix the burdock root, chicory and pectin in my Greek yogurt.

Stephan at http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/search?q=inulin also talks about inulin in improving gastrointestinal Health.

I would avoid all forms of sugar...whether it comes from fruit like blueberries or from carbs that are converted to sugar in the gut...as yeast loves a sugary environment to thrive.

Regarding your sub optimal soccer performance on paleo, I would bet you are not taking in enough meat and fat to fuel your body to the level necessary to sustain the energy you need to be constantly on the move...as required in soccer. Thus you think you need the energy from 100g of carbs to fuel yourself. When folks decide to go paleo, they do not realize it takes a while to keto adapt (converting to using meat and fat to fuel the body rather than using carbs) and they do not realize they must replace the lost energy from carbs with animal protein and fat.

Try this. For a couple of weeks, breakfast 5 eggs fried in coconut oil or butter. 1/4 pound of bacon...best value I find at Wal-Mart...Wrights Brand bacon ends, 3 pounds for $4.92. Lunch 1/2 pound hamburger, no bun with some steamed veggies slathered in butter. Dinner 16 oz steak with lots of fat around the edges with more green veggies slathered in butter. Plus a green salad with olive oil and vinegar. Eat like this and I bet your performance will improve. If you run out of energy during the day, take along with you a small jar of coconut oil and have a few spoonfuls. I carry a jar with me all the time.

Keep the group updated as to your progress.

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1

(7304)

on November 28, 2010
at 07:52 PM

paul jaminet at perfect health diet seems to know quite a bit about fungal infections. you may want to ask him your question

1cbb6b2a813475d6c0b17fd5e898dc50

(1248)

on November 28, 2010
at 06:20 PM

Agreed. A lot of paleo beginners just don't understand how much fat is needed for fuel. Once you grasp the fact that fat is good you'll have plenty of energy. I am a road biker and have plenty of energy (75% of my cals are from fat) for 40 mile (about 2 hours) rides easily, now, a century is a different story.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on November 28, 2010
at 07:25 PM

Thanks a lot for your input. But I do consume lots of fat. I consume about 270grams of fat daily, 130 grams of protein, and carbohydrates usually don't go over 50grams. I have began reading some of Dr. Ayers stuff, and its really fascinating information. I will keep you guys updated. There is still a lot of confusion in my mind whether or not a gut dysbiosis automatically equals candida. My tests revealed no yeast overgrowth, but I do have various fungal infections throughout my body.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on November 28, 2010
at 08:00 PM

Ah yes, Paul Jaminet, his information, in fact, was what prompted me to ask this question. He, unlike many other healing diets, recommends starch, which I thought was a plus for me, because of my physical requirements. But I am still a bit hesitant on whether or not starch (from sweet potatoes) is bad for the gut. I have decided to ask Dr. Ayers and just waiting on his response.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on November 28, 2010
at 06:42 PM

Aaron, many of the road biker community I have talked to seem to have very low cholesterol levels (140 to 170) and use it as a badge of good health. But there is lots of evidence that VL cholesterol does not lead to long life. In fact, TC around 250-275 seems prevalent for longevity as this seems to corolate with being able to ward off diseases. However these road bikers are all carb loaders and not paleo. Have you seen this? Any evidence that biker paleos have higher cholesterol levels?

0
Db4e2062cad50ab5042dfc5685c3e06d

on November 29, 2010
at 02:35 PM

I had the same issue with seb derm for absolutely ages even after I switched to moderate paleo. Took awhile before I realised (duh) that I was becoming more and more gluten intolerant the fewer grain products I ate. After cutting them out entirely (watch out for sausages otherwise called "hot dogs", beer etc for sneaky sources of gluten). Skin almost 100% now. It will take some time to rebalance and heal. Good luck.

P.S. Soccer is spelt F-O-O-T-B-A-L-L. Lot's of love from England.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on November 29, 2010
at 03:04 PM

Thanks. I am almost 100% sure I consume no gluten at all. I am very picky about where my meat comes from, and rarely by store bought stuff or things with more than two ingredients. But like you said this takes time, maybe four months isn't enough. And yes, I agree soccer is such an ugly name, FOOTBALL is it's rightful name.

Db4e2062cad50ab5042dfc5685c3e06d

(109)

on November 29, 2010
at 04:22 PM

Good man! Also forgot to mention that my skin improves far better with vit D and omega 3 supplements (D only 2,400 iu but its a start and n3 at 520mg per day)

0
742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on November 28, 2010
at 10:44 PM

I'd like to also add what my Microbiology stool test says.

"Sufficient amounts of Bifido. and E. Coli appear to be present in the stool however lactobacilii is below optimal levels....lacto. and bifi. are important for gastrointestinal function, as they are involved in vitamin synthesis, digestion, immune function, detoxification of pro-carcinogens...." it then goes on to say " A quantity of +1 yeast is considered an acceptable amount of yeast in the stool. However it may reflect a condition of yeast overgrowth...or may lead to symptoms in individuals showing deficient beneficial bacteria."

What scares me the most is the fact that I have an overgrowth of a Bacillus Species(?) which is considered a potential pathogen.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on November 29, 2010
at 12:14 AM

What stool test did you get done? They are good for identifying disease causing pathogens but pretty useless for telling usefull about the levels of normal gut bacteria. Did it say which Bacillus species is was?

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on November 29, 2010
at 11:14 AM

I'm sorry to say that the test you had done was a scam, please ignore the results as they are meaningless. Lactobacilii are hard to detect in stool tests and everyone has many Bacilli bacteria species in their gut. I really hate companies like that, they confuse and worry well meaning people like yourself unnecessarily and take your money. Here is some reading on the subject http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=4768

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on November 29, 2010
at 12:14 AM

What stool test did you get done? They are good for identifying disease causing pathogens but pretty useless for telling anything usefull about the levels of normal gut bacteria. Did it say which Bacillus species is was?

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on November 29, 2010
at 01:35 AM

I got a stool test from Geneva Diagnostics, at the top of the results it says Microbiology. It says I have zero production of Lactobacillus and overgrowth of Bacillus (PP or potential pathogen) but it doesn't say which one.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on November 29, 2010
at 03:12 PM

Oh wow, that was a real eye opener. I had tests from two of the company mentioned, neuroscience, for food allergies, and Geneva Diagnostics for my stool test. This doesn't change the fact that there is something wrong with my immune/digestive system, but now I just don't know what to do. Should I take another test, or should I attempt to cure myself blindly. Thanks.

0
Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1

(7304)

on November 28, 2010
at 04:31 PM

Play around and see how you feel. white rice may help you get your carbs up too. sometimes the fiber from, say, sweet potatoes can feed gut bacteria

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on November 28, 2010
at 04:35 PM

I must admit I am more scared of white rice than a sweet potato hahaha. I will try to play around with it, to see if I see an improvement in physical fitness and my gut dysbiosis. There is so much conflicting information on the internet, making it hard to come to a conclusion.

0
4a1966b5bc00a9aefd3abd63b9913284

on November 28, 2010
at 04:13 PM

Dysbiosis is very common- do you take a probiotic or eat any probiotic foods (raw sauerkraut)? It's tricky to balance needing more carbs for the activity you're doing with the sugar issue, but I'd say for sure a starchy addition like yams, sweet potatoes or winter squash is likely a good place to start. Try it and see how it feels. I'd vote against the fruit but I'd add one thing at a time and test it for a week to see how you feel.

Good luck- keep us posted.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on November 28, 2010
at 07:07 PM

Thanks for that. I knew I shouldn't have expected quick results.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on November 28, 2010
at 07:05 PM

It will take 3-6 months to get your vit d3 level up to 60-70 ng/ml taking 5000IU a day. I started at 10000IU for 6 months and then backed off to 5000IU to keep my level at optimum.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on November 28, 2010
at 04:22 PM

Thanks for the answer. I have just begun supplementing a probiotic, and vitamin D a week ago, but I still don't feel any change. Of course these things could take time. I have thought about adding a sweet potato, but there is still than fear that I might be feeding something nasty in my system. But four months of very LC hasn't helped my cause either.

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