2

votes

Holy Candida Die Off?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created October 17, 2011 at 7:46 PM

I've been clean for many years (like 10) - meaning no sugar, grains, or processed food. Three weeks ago I dumped all carbs (meaning fruit and the occasional raw honey) and upped my fats to paleo levels and lowered my protein intake. (I do not do nuts or dairy; they hurt.)

And within 3 days felt like total shit. I had/have no cravings, but I swear I've been in some kind of intense detox. My weight went up a bit like a detox would do. I read about candida die off - these are the symptoms I have - but I am not coming from the SAD diet! SO I added some raw garlic 3x/day, olive leaf, and oil of oregano.
It got worse.

I'm 51, female, post menopausal, and fit. On a VERY fundamental level, I think how I'm eating now is right for me - I truly don't want carbs - I barely want vegetables - but how I am feeling doesn't match up.

I had been eating chia and hempseeds - but this weekend had a strong reaction (migraine) when I added raw tahini so have dumped all seeds. I'm fairly confused. Yesterday I backed down off the garlic/olive/oregano in case it's kicking shit up.

ANYONE know anything about this??

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on October 18, 2011
at 06:41 PM

3 weeks? Hard to remember now.

73b72d74565dcf088158a97e39ae1d5e

(48)

on October 18, 2011
at 04:59 PM

'gut' your way through it...ha ha ha...

73b72d74565dcf088158a97e39ae1d5e

(48)

on October 18, 2011
at 04:58 PM

How long did that last for you?

73b72d74565dcf088158a97e39ae1d5e

(48)

on October 18, 2011
at 04:57 PM

Paul - because I am improving very rapidly - even w/o adding carbs - I'm assuming this is something besides Candida - I will look into this whole 'low carb flu' thing - THANKS ALL this is interesting -

73b72d74565dcf088158a97e39ae1d5e

(48)

on October 18, 2011
at 04:53 PM

THANK ALL OF YOU - I am feeling much better today - MUCH - having some energy back and feeling clear headed. That lasted about 2 weeks, whatever it was - Kyle, I'm eating all kinds of meat (prot at about 120 g/day) - lots of eggs, avocado, ex virg olive oil, coconut oil. Greens, and a little lemon for salad. Phoenix, yes - had nagging symptoms which is why I dumped the carbs - in and out of detoxy feelings. Fatigue mostly, but should add 7.5 weeks ago I quit smoking weed - it was light usage but daily. So I think that was that detox.

73b72d74565dcf088158a97e39ae1d5e

(48)

on October 18, 2011
at 04:29 PM

Doing bone broth daily - it does feel good. My skin is looking good. I AM FEELING BETTER TODAY - more fundamental energy - so whatever is going on is improving... I'll up the leafy greens -

73b72d74565dcf088158a97e39ae1d5e

(48)

on October 18, 2011
at 04:26 PM

I wouldn't say I am technically at 'low protein' - I lowered it from 150g/day (I only weigh 110) to 120g/day - to me, that is lowering it. I do not feel ketotic - I'll get some berries and winter squash in today and see how that feels -

Ec7cb2a7a68655954a01f03e95be1383

(1453)

on October 18, 2011
at 11:43 AM

Paul, How can one heal the candidasis before going into ketosis?

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on October 18, 2011
at 08:43 AM

Contemplating this more I wonder how much of our ability to tolerate candida depends on our gut permeability, and whether we even really need to worry about it if we have a healthy diverse collection of gut flora.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on October 18, 2011
at 01:13 AM

Whoa! Candida eats ketones?! They're smart buggers, advanced too. This would look to explain improved health some experience with more safe starches in the diet. I suppose differentiation might occur based on someone's candida status pre-low-carb, and their exposure to it once VLC. Wouldn't enough protein, which I suspect NC and VLC people get help maintain fungal immunity, especially if they have healthy livers manufacturing needed glucose?

9e20abb05f3f6e3cc4bb107f8980aecd

(5939)

on October 18, 2011
at 12:35 AM

Alexandra, If it starts immediately and goes away after a few weeks it's probably not Candida. If it builds slowly and gets worse the longer you're on very low-carb, it may well be Candida. Hi Happy Now, Fructose is pro-fungal, so removing fruit will help against intestinal Candida, but starches will usually help immunity more than it helps the Candida. The main problem with very low carb is that it creates ketones which Candida can feed on. This promotes systemic invasion. VLC also impairs fungal immunity which is glucose and protein expensive.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on October 18, 2011
at 12:07 AM

Paul, this is the first of this I've heard, can you explain the mechanism? I was under the impression that candida required a lot of circulating sugar to thrive. I've have the exact opposite reaction, when I removed fruit for a while, coated tongue, fatigue, yeast infections, and fuzzy headedness disappeared. Isn't coconut oil also an anti-candida agent? A lot of us going keto use a fair amount of it, and it seems would be protected even if ketosis in it's own right promoted overgrowth.

27361737e33ba2f73ab3c25d2699ad61

(1880)

on October 17, 2011
at 11:54 PM

This is interesting. Could the carb-flu/fatigue people speak actually be Candida? What is considered "low protein" -- how many grams of protein per kilogram of bodyweight is low enough to induce candida? If the lack of carbs promotes candida, then I would think that people following the vlc would notice this. I don't think I've ever had a candida infection -- no coated tongue, no female infections, no bloating or itching etc. Perhaps there is an individual susceptibility? Also, since invasive Candida can be contagious (via sex, kissing) -- maybe that's a red herring?

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628

(3631)

on October 17, 2011
at 11:42 PM

Most surely it's "low-carb flu", but why are you ditching carbs? Secondly, I'd be wary of Oil of Oregano; you will not be served by decimating your gut flora.

76f3ead3aa977d876bcf3331d35a36e9

(4620)

on October 17, 2011
at 09:25 PM

How did you feel before you dumped the carbs? Any nagging symptoms?

F02990386b12528111740ad6279ba29d

(1363)

on October 17, 2011
at 08:58 PM

I don't have any help, but I was wondering if you could tell me what foods you eat? I'm trying to lower carb and protein while upping fat as well.

73b72d74565dcf088158a97e39ae1d5e

(48)

on October 17, 2011
at 08:06 PM

I was at roughly 80-100g carbs before and averaged 20g up to yesterday, when I dropped seeds.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on October 17, 2011
at 08:03 PM

Roughly how many grams of carbs were you eating before? Are you eating zero carbs now?

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6 Answers

3
E6d117f4afc3d092b5bbf0b47b57e6f9

on April 26, 2012
at 09:13 PM

Everything I've read is just the opposite; that sugar and starches feed candida and a low carb diet lowers candida count. At least, thAt was the info out five years ago when I was trying to get rid of my problem. It worked for me, and when I get over 50 carbs a day around the holidays, my candida comes roaring back. My diet is protein and fat with greens and that is it.

3
9e20abb05f3f6e3cc4bb107f8980aecd

on October 17, 2011
at 10:32 PM

On a very low-carb, low protein diet, you're not likely to get Candida die-off, you'll get Candida flourishing. If you have Candida die-off it's because there's more Candida around to die.

Add some carbs and protein back, you'll do better. Ketogenic diets promote Candida, so stay out of ketosis.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on October 18, 2011
at 01:13 AM

Whoa! Candida eats ketones?! They're smart buggers, advanced too. This would look to explain improved health some experience with more safe starches in the diet. I suppose differentiation might occur based on someone's candida status pre-low-carb, and their exposure to it once VLC. Wouldn't enough protein, which I suspect NC and VLC people get help maintain fungal immunity, especially if they have healthy livers manufacturing needed glucose?

73b72d74565dcf088158a97e39ae1d5e

(48)

on October 18, 2011
at 04:26 PM

I wouldn't say I am technically at 'low protein' - I lowered it from 150g/day (I only weigh 110) to 120g/day - to me, that is lowering it. I do not feel ketotic - I'll get some berries and winter squash in today and see how that feels -

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on October 18, 2011
at 12:07 AM

Paul, this is the first of this I've heard, can you explain the mechanism? I was under the impression that candida required a lot of circulating sugar to thrive. I've have the exact opposite reaction, when I removed fruit for a while, coated tongue, fatigue, yeast infections, and fuzzy headedness disappeared. Isn't coconut oil also an anti-candida agent? A lot of us going keto use a fair amount of it, and it seems would be protected even if ketosis in it's own right promoted overgrowth.

9e20abb05f3f6e3cc4bb107f8980aecd

(5939)

on October 18, 2011
at 12:35 AM

Alexandra, If it starts immediately and goes away after a few weeks it's probably not Candida. If it builds slowly and gets worse the longer you're on very low-carb, it may well be Candida. Hi Happy Now, Fructose is pro-fungal, so removing fruit will help against intestinal Candida, but starches will usually help immunity more than it helps the Candida. The main problem with very low carb is that it creates ketones which Candida can feed on. This promotes systemic invasion. VLC also impairs fungal immunity which is glucose and protein expensive.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on October 18, 2011
at 08:43 AM

Contemplating this more I wonder how much of our ability to tolerate candida depends on our gut permeability, and whether we even really need to worry about it if we have a healthy diverse collection of gut flora.

27361737e33ba2f73ab3c25d2699ad61

(1880)

on October 17, 2011
at 11:54 PM

This is interesting. Could the carb-flu/fatigue people speak actually be Candida? What is considered "low protein" -- how many grams of protein per kilogram of bodyweight is low enough to induce candida? If the lack of carbs promotes candida, then I would think that people following the vlc would notice this. I don't think I've ever had a candida infection -- no coated tongue, no female infections, no bloating or itching etc. Perhaps there is an individual susceptibility? Also, since invasive Candida can be contagious (via sex, kissing) -- maybe that's a red herring?

Ec7cb2a7a68655954a01f03e95be1383

(1453)

on October 18, 2011
at 11:43 AM

Paul, How can one heal the candidasis before going into ketosis?

73b72d74565dcf088158a97e39ae1d5e

(48)

on October 18, 2011
at 04:57 PM

Paul - because I am improving very rapidly - even w/o adding carbs - I'm assuming this is something besides Candida - I will look into this whole 'low carb flu' thing - THANKS ALL this is interesting -

2
6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on October 17, 2011
at 09:45 PM

Does sound like low carb flu (give yourself some time to rest and reset while you switch gears). You might also be having a die off as well, and experiencing a double whammy.

How's your skin looking? I've read that candida die off can make it look "angry". Brain fog is also common, but it is common with low carb flu too.

Epsom Salt baths, bone broth and lots of it with some Celtic Sea Salt can help reduce your misery. Low carb induction can cause a wasting of electrolytes, and that will leave you feeling pretty crappy.

Some people also suggest 2 cups of leafy greens or green powder drinks for at least 2 weeks to get through it. If you have a juicer this is an appropriate occasion for veggie juice (cucumber and parsley are a fave combo of mine).

Julia Ross (author of The Mood Cure and The Diet Cure) recommends Alka Seltzer Gold to get through the discomfort of making dietary transitions.

Hope you feel better soon.

73b72d74565dcf088158a97e39ae1d5e

(48)

on October 18, 2011
at 04:29 PM

Doing bone broth daily - it does feel good. My skin is looking good. I AM FEELING BETTER TODAY - more fundamental energy - so whatever is going on is improving... I'll up the leafy greens -

2
Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on October 17, 2011
at 09:22 PM

When I went vlc after 4 months of eating lacto-Paleo, I had some discomfort, for sure.

I didn't worry about my symptoms, since I had read about "carb flu". I drank more water & took it easy to allow my body to adjust.

Adding in some magnesium, zinc and potassium may help.

73b72d74565dcf088158a97e39ae1d5e

(48)

on October 18, 2011
at 04:58 PM

How long did that last for you?

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on October 18, 2011
at 06:41 PM

3 weeks? Hard to remember now.

1
5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on October 17, 2011
at 09:19 PM

Search for low carb flu/paleo flu for other threads on it. You'll get different ideas on things to do there, but pretty much you have to gut your way through it.

73b72d74565dcf088158a97e39ae1d5e

(48)

on October 18, 2011
at 04:59 PM

'gut' your way through it...ha ha ha...

0
6fece842bd1bcf5724f458a302a2156e

on June 13, 2013
at 10:59 AM

Sounds exactly what I have (and at the same age) except I have kept my brown carbs in for now (brown rice, based potato/sweet potato). I have the same symptoms but having given up all fruit for the first time as I am addicted to it and my body feels as if it has been hit by an express train. My eyes for three whole weeks I have been going this are sore all day, one is watering.I feel post viral, very very tired as if everything is being drained from me. I have kept up the no fruit in case this is just a stage when sonething in the stomach is dying off which lives on fruit/ sugar but if I still feel bad once my period starts I will have to consider some blueberries and see if that helps.

I cannot believe that doing something that is go good (giving up chocolate/fruit) and eating a lot of veg, meat/fish/eggs and the brown carb can make me so ill. I've been wondering if I have a cold/flu germ but I think not. I am gong to buy Molybdenum which supposedly helps with candida die off to see if that helps. I have never in my life had any kind of gut or bowel issues and now wondering if I should just go out and buy a massive quantity of grapes or nuts and raisins as that will I am sure help with bowels and how my tummy feels.

However I am fascinated as to whar can be going on. If the reaction is so strong to giving something up (when I came off caffeine it was nothing like as long as this - week 3 is nearly up) then it must be right to give it up.

(No weight lost of course expect perhaps a pound -0 the one thing my virtually never ill healthy body can always manage is to retain all its weight).

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