5

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Are you still a non believer that high cortisol causing exercising like distance running kills you earlier?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created April 20, 2011 at 2:19 PM

http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/marathon-great-grete-waitz-dies-at-57-after-cancer-battle-041911

When you eat a high carb diet and do cortisol stimulating exercises you use up all your stem cells via replicative senescense and you induce early apoptosis and eventually diseases like cancer atherosclerosis and heart disease. You may not buy it but the data is compelling and overwhelming. Many in my field are beginning to get the message loud and clear. What say you on this topic. I know there are many threads about htis topic but Ms Greta is an older distance runner and they all tend to die in the 50's. See Jimm Fixx and Bill Schroeder as too other classic examples. Many running fans post pics of distance runners who are in their 20's. You can barely ever find one past 70 because they are already being taken out by our telomere biology. I understand many enjoy it......but you must know what it does to body human and it aint good.......

2f54dbe892ec89b12d1db686568e885a

(919)

on April 20, 2011
at 07:36 PM

Having just watched the London Marathon from the comfort of my armchair I couldn't help notice how ill and scrawny a lot of the serious competitors, apart from the professional African runners, looked. Far from doing themselves good, the opposite appeared to be happening. "Runner's high", a high price to pay.

9d741bcbe702044635f2ce3078043054

(1435)

on April 20, 2011
at 05:39 PM

Agreed. I have not seen studies that separate the cortisol effect from the carbo-loading that usually goes hand-in-hand with endurance sports. I'm all for sprinting as a form of training, but I still run long distances from time to time to keep my cardiovasular endurance high.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on April 20, 2011
at 04:21 PM

Yeah man, just because something is potentially important, doesn't mean that it escapes the limits of evidence-based medicine, the scientific method, and biological plausability. You know that if you make unsubstantiated claims, RG73 is going to have none of it :)

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on April 20, 2011
at 04:20 PM

don't just tell me to read more about biology. I'm not dumb, I know doctors are not required to take any college level courses in nutrition or stats. Doctors are not experts in biochemistry either. Cite something real this time from a peer-reviewed research publication.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on April 20, 2011
at 04:16 PM

Dr. K, do you have any real research to back up any of your claims?

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on April 20, 2011
at 04:13 PM

Kamal - what if achieving long telomeres is to be viewed in the same manner as achieving high HDL? That shorter telomres are 'correlated' with shorter life. I'm not saying I agree or that I even understand it, but to me, it sounds like Doc is saying that new scientific evidence supports the 'correlation' that longer telomeres most often would lead to longer life.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on April 20, 2011
at 03:58 PM

Dr. K- Why is everything about telomeres? If you die from CVD at an early age, telomere shortening might well be correlated with your decline, but all kinds of other stuff is what caused the atherosclerosis in the first place. I'm essentially repeating what RG73 said, but that's because you are not being clear in your argument.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on April 20, 2011
at 03:33 PM

Daniel.....There is few things exogenous that lengthen telomeres.....but many good things that slow the shortening. The key is not to deplete your stem cell supply early in life because right now we cant expand it. But even that dogmatic stance is being tested by researchers. Mike West has re engineered adult stem cells to embryonal ones in vitro. Delphino has reversed aging in mice in 2011 at Harvard. This shows that the potential to do something is clearly there but we dont know the details as yet.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on April 20, 2011
at 03:29 PM

you are finding out what the researchers are......HIIT causes a neurohumeral response that increases telomere length while endurance aerobics exercises degrade out telomeres.....has huge implications for body composition and VO2 max studies.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on April 20, 2011
at 03:27 PM

I know this is controversial topic but we are he to hack conventional wisdom......and distance running is something that needs to be seriously looked at.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on April 20, 2011
at 03:26 PM

Yes I have. And the America Association of Cardiology and the NIH are studying it too because of the high cardiac death rate in runners. The NIH trial is now in year 5 of the long term follow up. the early data have been nothing short of eye opening.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on April 20, 2011
at 03:24 PM

i agree with this Kent. But the data that long distance running is not good fir us is getting rather dense to deny.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on April 20, 2011
at 03:22 PM

Bree.....sprints are great because of the their effect on the neurohumoral response of the skeltal muscle on sex steroid hormones and GH. They all support telomere length but decreasing shortening. 400 yard sprints is what I recommend. Most people run intervals of 40 yards to get the neurohumeral response they need for longevity.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on April 20, 2011
at 03:20 PM

RG amazes me......everything you posted about Fixx shortenes his telomeres and stem cell lines.....so when he changes his life to an exercise pattern that further worsens his fate you somehow think this supports you? WOW. Fixx died precisely because his telomeres and stem cells were toasted in his whole life including his running time. Baseless claims? Try reading more. I am not your teacher.....you can read quite well. You just like to argue. The data is pretty clear to all in the scientific community. If you engage in behaviors that shorten telomeres...nothing good comes of it period

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on April 20, 2011
at 03:17 PM

it takes 15 yrs for benchtop research to effect clinical practice which is maddening to some of us.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on April 20, 2011
at 03:16 PM

Melissa you need to get out and read more about telomeres.....anything that drives insulin and cortisol chronically high cause the guardian of the genome to crumble. that is p53. And the next step is cancer generation. Many times there are other factors too.....like chronic ROS from the mitochondria or from complete use of all stem cells in that organ......see heart failure. But the bottom line is that activites that cause these two factors eventually shorten telomeres and eventually make you sick or kill you. Biology 2011 is clear cut on this issue. Its just not well known because

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on April 20, 2011
at 03:04 PM

Dr K on another thread about running referred readers to the following book. I have it on order from Amazon. The Immortality Edge: Realize the Secrets of Your Telomeres for a Longer, Healthier Life: Michael Fossel, Greta Blackburn http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/PressRelease/pressReleaseId-87677.html

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on April 20, 2011
at 03:03 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK_laAjtVNw

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on April 20, 2011
at 03:02 PM

there are many potential causes of cancer, but I don't know of any evidence linking it to cortisol

9f9fa49265e03ddd2bf2bba5477a556b

(3184)

on April 20, 2011
at 02:55 PM

Oh, and this is what happens when you use anecdotes...Fixx was a former smoker, formerly obese, with a history of heart disease. He died from an MI due to atherosclerosis. That has nothing to do with telomeres. It was most likely due to genetics (e.g. family history of heart disease), his former lifestyle (obese/smoker till age 36), and diet (probably very high carb, low fat). Unless you're going to claim MIs are a telomere disease too. Look, I don't even like to run, but you make baseless claims without backing them up. I post recent lit, you don't. Lets talk the science, not anecdotes.

9f9fa49265e03ddd2bf2bba5477a556b

(3184)

on April 20, 2011
at 02:47 PM

Btw, if the data is so compelling then you'd post actual papers and not anecdotes.

9f9fa49265e03ddd2bf2bba5477a556b

(3184)

on April 20, 2011
at 02:46 PM

Hi, my name is n=1.

Medium avatar

(12379)

on April 20, 2011
at 02:44 PM

What is a safe distance to be running on a frequent basis? And does this encompass all longer-lasting cardio activities (like sports or swimming) or just running? Thanks Dr.K

07ca188c8dac3a17f629dd87198d2098

(7970)

on April 20, 2011
at 02:25 PM

I want to make it clear I'm not supporting super-long endurance activities, but I just am not convinced one necessarily leads to another.

Cf5c9ba3c06cf300ae23c52778dfd317

(545)

on April 20, 2011
at 02:22 PM

Is this something you can "recover" from so to speak? If one ran a lot at a younger age, does that ultimately translate to shorter lifespan?

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4 Answers

3
07ca188c8dac3a17f629dd87198d2098

(7970)

on April 20, 2011
at 02:23 PM

Correlation doesn't equal causation.

I know I always had it drilled into me that if I'm going to undertake any kind of endurance sport, I have to load up on carbs. Pasta, nilla wafers, etc. Stuff myself to the brim with them, even.

What other factors were involved in this woman's life that might have contributed to her poor health and eventual death?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on April 20, 2011
at 03:24 PM

i agree with this Kent. But the data that long distance running is not good fir us is getting rather dense to deny.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on April 20, 2011
at 03:04 PM

Dr K on another thread about running referred readers to the following book. I have it on order from Amazon. The Immortality Edge: Realize the Secrets of Your Telomeres for a Longer, Healthier Life: Michael Fossel, Greta Blackburn http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/PressRelease/pressReleaseId-87677.html

07ca188c8dac3a17f629dd87198d2098

(7970)

on April 20, 2011
at 02:25 PM

I want to make it clear I'm not supporting super-long endurance activities, but I just am not convinced one necessarily leads to another.

9d741bcbe702044635f2ce3078043054

(1435)

on April 20, 2011
at 05:39 PM

Agreed. I have not seen studies that separate the cortisol effect from the carbo-loading that usually goes hand-in-hand with endurance sports. I'm all for sprinting as a form of training, but I still run long distances from time to time to keep my cardiovasular endurance high.

2
Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on April 20, 2011
at 03:01 PM

I don't know why. I just get a kick out of this Rieske guy. He is so "out there".

Top Ten Exercise Health Myths About Running, Jogging, Biking, Marathons, and Triathlons.

Skip down to the middle of the page to this:

are-you-still-a-non-believer-that-high-cortisol-causing-exercising-like-distance-running-kills-you-earlier?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on April 20, 2011
at 03:27 PM

I know this is controversial topic but we are he to hack conventional wisdom......and distance running is something that needs to be seriously looked at.

2f54dbe892ec89b12d1db686568e885a

(919)

on April 20, 2011
at 07:36 PM

Having just watched the London Marathon from the comfort of my armchair I couldn't help notice how ill and scrawny a lot of the serious competitors, apart from the professional African runners, looked. Far from doing themselves good, the opposite appeared to be happening. "Runner's high", a high price to pay.

1
21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on April 20, 2011
at 03:01 PM

"they all tend to die in the 50's"

I can't tell if you're being serious. Have you looked at data, at all?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on April 20, 2011
at 03:26 PM

Yes I have. And the America Association of Cardiology and the NIH are studying it too because of the high cardiac death rate in runners. The NIH trial is now in year 5 of the long term follow up. the early data have been nothing short of eye opening.

0
88cffa260e8259942de579503d282ee7

on April 20, 2011
at 03:02 PM

I'm an exercise addict. For many years I ran, I did triathlons, mountain biked, kayaked, paddleboarded, well you get the idea. Even when I was running 100 mi weeks I had a belly and couldn't lose it no matter how little I ate. At 52 years old, I resigned myself to the fact (?) that I would always have a belly. I did everything mainstream science told me to do: I ate oatmeal for breakfast, whole wheat bread and lean meat sandwich for lunch, I worked out several hours a day: swimming, 3 sets of 10 reps on the weight machines, mountain biking 1-2 hours a a time. I was always tired and had a body fat in the +25% range. Since starting CrossFit in November and eating paleo since Jan. I've lost 20 lbs, added muscle and gotten faster on 1/2 the mileage. I'm stronger than ever, eat all I want, and have more energy than ever in my life. I know I sound like an info-mercial but it's all true (& I have the pictures LOL). I will still race and even do long races but the races are not the problem; the training is. Check out "CrossFit Endurance" for more info.

bob

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on April 20, 2011
at 03:29 PM

you are finding out what the researchers are......HIIT causes a neurohumeral response that increases telomere length while endurance aerobics exercises degrade out telomeres.....has huge implications for body composition and VO2 max studies.

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