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MetCon/Crossfit calorie/energy needs

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created September 07, 2013 at 12:44 AM

Have any of you noticed some appetite suppression on days when you do high intensity training?

I am wondering if there are any recommended post workout snacks that other primal crossfitters employ?

How have you over come this? And what are some good Paleo/Primal foods that you've added in that may help with this issue?

I am wondering if anyone has any recommendations about things they did to account for adding crossfit or HIITS/MetCon training into their week, specifically increased calorie consumption etc, as i am suspicious that having these in my life on a regular basis are causing the appetite suppression and may be negatively impacting my ability to gain lean mass while I drop adipose tissue.

I currently eat about 50% Fat, 35% protein, 15% carbs, around 2k cal per day. I am 5'11" 180~ lbs., 4-5 lbs from my ideal weight. I'd like to slowly wean myself off of this monster caloric deficit i am seeing (1k-1.5k daily). I excercise 7 times/wk, HIITs 2 days/wk, Crossfit 3x / wk, full court basketball 2x per week, and some Yoga and 4+ mile runs and walks interspersed. Not religious with getting all of these activities in EVERY week, some weeks i do less, I just enjoy the exercise and do it when i feel like it.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 11:01 PM

Yeah there's a definite limit on protein, and carbs seem to be dependent up activity levels and individual insulin sensitivity. Fat would be all that remains. Thanks for taking the time to answer. And I will read your blog if you end up getting around to it.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 11:00 PM

Yeah there's a definite limit on protein, and carbs seem to be dependent up activity levels and individual insulin sensitivity. Fat would be all that remains. Thanks for taking the time to answer.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 12, 2012
at 10:47 PM

I eat fatty cuts of meat, and I do add grass-fed butter to many things. I am more primal, so I also do pasured heavy cream. Coconut oil isn't bad either. Calories have to come from somewhere, and I don't think he needs to take his carbs a lot higher, and there is an upper limit of what the body can effectively process in protein. That leaves fat as the main variable.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 10:09 PM

Where would one get 1800 calories from fat? That's 200 grams. I try to get most of my fat just from wild animals, and I would be very surprised if I hit over 80g fat without adding butter or olive oil to anything. Nuts are high in PUFA so I limit them. Adding butter and oil liberally to meals seems not very paleolithic to me, and oil provides virtual no additional nutritents (but it does increase nutrient absorption from plant matter, so there is that benefit). Just curious, not saying it's a bad strategy. Just genuinely curious about how you get to 200g fat.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 12, 2012
at 08:49 PM

EPOC is very little, contrary to popular opinion. At most it is an additional 10-15% of calories. Do you use a HRM to measure calorie expenditure? Most calorie assumptions are way over estimates. But generally a 1hr intense Crossfit for a male 145 lbs (self) is about 300-350 calories minus basal of about 65. It is hard to exeercise your way to weight loss.

510bdda8988ed0d4b0ec0b738b4edb73

(20888)

on June 29, 2012
at 01:20 AM

Yes, I left that out to simplify the discussion, but even using the numbers on the page you linked to would mean that you only get maybe an extra factor of 2, so now we're up to 160 calories instead of 80. You ain't gettin' skinny from that.

F3fc2e0a9577e7e481a387d917904d1e

(1070)

on June 28, 2012
at 11:13 PM

You're also not accounting for EPOC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_post-exercise_oxygen_consumption

510bdda8988ed0d4b0ec0b738b4edb73

(20888)

on June 15, 2012
at 02:55 AM

30 * 135lb * 8 ft = 32,400 ft-lbs of work = 10.49 food calories. But you're right, I forgot the inefficiency of turning food calories into physical work. Your body is about 12.5% (1/8th) efficient at turning stored calories into work, so Grace actually burns about 80 calories.

Medium avatar

(2338)

on June 15, 2012
at 01:15 AM

30-135lb c&j's only burn 10 calories? im gonna call bull shit. i burn 10 calories reading a book.

Cbf014e1272e1c092e774c70e78b7890

(300)

on June 14, 2012
at 08:21 PM

hmmm interesting. I can burn about 600 calories at moderate pace running (9min mile) in forty minutes. and the exertion from that is WAY less than my HIITs, 20 min sprint sessions, or a 1 hr crossfit class... I have to disagree with you on this, I'd estimate a crossfit class at decent level of exertion would burn at least 500 calories, probably somewhere higher in the area of 750+. Even if its only 40 min true exertion between warmup workout and cooldown i'd still estimate it up there.

510bdda8988ed0d4b0ec0b738b4edb73

(20888)

on June 14, 2012
at 07:31 PM

I'd be shocked if it's more than a hundred or two. Most exercise is that way. That's why diet is more important than exercise for fitness. If your box has a C2 rower, put it on cal/hr mode and pull so that you're burning 1,000 calories an hour. I bet you can't keep that up for more than 2 minutes. That's how hard it is to burn calories.

Cbf014e1272e1c092e774c70e78b7890

(300)

on June 14, 2012
at 06:52 PM

Huh.. Didnt know that metcon is not really a large calorie burn... What do you think is the avg calorie burn from 1 hr cross fit class?

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2 Answers

1
C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 12, 2012
at 08:52 PM

Are you still losing weight? If not, you are not in a calorie deficit, no matter what your math says. Now, judging by the info you posted, I would guess you need minimum 3000 kcal to maintain, and be healthy, but if you have reduced to 2000, your metabolism might have just slowed to compensate. Try adding more fat, and even a small amount of carbs, post exercise. For your weight, I would shoot for 600 kcal protein, 600 kcal carbs, and about 1800 kcal fat. But that is just me.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 12, 2012
at 10:47 PM

I eat fatty cuts of meat, and I do add grass-fed butter to many things. I am more primal, so I also do pasured heavy cream. Coconut oil isn't bad either. Calories have to come from somewhere, and I don't think he needs to take his carbs a lot higher, and there is an upper limit of what the body can effectively process in protein. That leaves fat as the main variable.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 10:09 PM

Where would one get 1800 calories from fat? That's 200 grams. I try to get most of my fat just from wild animals, and I would be very surprised if I hit over 80g fat without adding butter or olive oil to anything. Nuts are high in PUFA so I limit them. Adding butter and oil liberally to meals seems not very paleolithic to me, and oil provides virtual no additional nutritents (but it does increase nutrient absorption from plant matter, so there is that benefit). Just curious, not saying it's a bad strategy. Just genuinely curious about how you get to 200g fat.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 11:01 PM

Yeah there's a definite limit on protein, and carbs seem to be dependent up activity levels and individual insulin sensitivity. Fat would be all that remains. Thanks for taking the time to answer. And I will read your blog if you end up getting around to it.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 11:00 PM

Yeah there's a definite limit on protein, and carbs seem to be dependent up activity levels and individual insulin sensitivity. Fat would be all that remains. Thanks for taking the time to answer.

0
510bdda8988ed0d4b0ec0b738b4edb73

(20888)

on June 14, 2012
at 06:45 PM

I do notice that I'm not terribly hungry after a metcon, but by the evening, I will have made up for it and eat a huge dinner. One thing to remember though, is that you don't burn very many calories in a metcon. They're too short to actually burn much. You do them for the hormetic effect that makes you fitter.

Just for example, my favorite metcon: Grace - 30-135lb C&J. For the average 6 foot tall crossfitter, 30-135lb clean and jerks only burns 10 calories. Though, I am lying on the ground for a half hour after it.

Medium avatar

(2338)

on June 15, 2012
at 01:15 AM

30-135lb c&j's only burn 10 calories? im gonna call bull shit. i burn 10 calories reading a book.

510bdda8988ed0d4b0ec0b738b4edb73

(20888)

on June 15, 2012
at 02:55 AM

30 * 135lb * 8 ft = 32,400 ft-lbs of work = 10.49 food calories. But you're right, I forgot the inefficiency of turning food calories into physical work. Your body is about 12.5% (1/8th) efficient at turning stored calories into work, so Grace actually burns about 80 calories.

510bdda8988ed0d4b0ec0b738b4edb73

(20888)

on June 14, 2012
at 07:31 PM

I'd be shocked if it's more than a hundred or two. Most exercise is that way. That's why diet is more important than exercise for fitness. If your box has a C2 rower, put it on cal/hr mode and pull so that you're burning 1,000 calories an hour. I bet you can't keep that up for more than 2 minutes. That's how hard it is to burn calories.

Cbf014e1272e1c092e774c70e78b7890

(300)

on June 14, 2012
at 08:21 PM

hmmm interesting. I can burn about 600 calories at moderate pace running (9min mile) in forty minutes. and the exertion from that is WAY less than my HIITs, 20 min sprint sessions, or a 1 hr crossfit class... I have to disagree with you on this, I'd estimate a crossfit class at decent level of exertion would burn at least 500 calories, probably somewhere higher in the area of 750+. Even if its only 40 min true exertion between warmup workout and cooldown i'd still estimate it up there.

Cbf014e1272e1c092e774c70e78b7890

(300)

on June 14, 2012
at 06:52 PM

Huh.. Didnt know that metcon is not really a large calorie burn... What do you think is the avg calorie burn from 1 hr cross fit class?

510bdda8988ed0d4b0ec0b738b4edb73

(20888)

on June 29, 2012
at 01:20 AM

Yes, I left that out to simplify the discussion, but even using the numbers on the page you linked to would mean that you only get maybe an extra factor of 2, so now we're up to 160 calories instead of 80. You ain't gettin' skinny from that.

F3fc2e0a9577e7e481a387d917904d1e

(1070)

on June 28, 2012
at 11:13 PM

You're also not accounting for EPOC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_post-exercise_oxygen_consumption

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 12, 2012
at 08:49 PM

EPOC is very little, contrary to popular opinion. At most it is an additional 10-15% of calories. Do you use a HRM to measure calorie expenditure? Most calorie assumptions are way over estimates. But generally a 1hr intense Crossfit for a male 145 lbs (self) is about 300-350 calories minus basal of about 65. It is hard to exeercise your way to weight loss.

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