1

votes

Occasional over feed while on a calorie restricted diet for fat loss

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created August 31, 2012 at 1:35 PM

Firstly, I generally have the opinion that this "strategy" is just a rationalization that if we overfeed occasionally while otherwise in restriction calorically, our bodies will get the signal that we are not starving and get on with the fat burning; we rationalize positive effects of our basic caving in to the overwhelming biological-hormonal signals that get intense when our bodies are forced to shed fat. It seems that if we are actually losing fat, our bodies don't let us get away with it without a fight and make it mentally/hormonally/physically unpleasant so we won't do it.

That being said, does the forum have a factually based opinion to the contrary, that it actually does help one burn fat to "intermittantly overfeed"?

I've been on leangains for several months. I eat two meals 12pm and 8pm, 2000cal high carb low fat on training days 3x week, 1400cal higher fat zero carb rest days. I've backed down over months to these levels to keep the middle fat melting.

As its stalled, calling for more calorie restriction, I've resorted this week to

A) trimming most of the fat off my beef or lamb for the zero carb meat only rest days yielding much lower fat and a sort of PSMF protein sparing modified fast (not all fat but much if it), yielding a lot less calories

B) drinking green tea at fasting hour 14 or 15 and walking an hour on those rest days before breaking the fast at hr 16 to maximize stubborn fat burning.

It's been a bit of hell dealing with the intense desire to eat while at work during the middle of the feeding window. I KNOW I've got to be burning fat. Workouts with a lot of coffee on training days at fasting hour 15 have remained strong, but after a week of this restricted new regimine, today, a training day, I caved and has a third meal of lean protein/carb (nigiri sushi :) at 9pm making my total days calories 3000+ instead of 2000 flat.

I rationalized this as a needed carb up feed so I wouldn't

A) go crazy

B) get too weak

C) put my body into fat hoarding shut down mode (going against my first paragraph)

What do you all think?

EDIT I'd also appreciate it if folks who comment or answer would indicate whether it not they follow leangains. I respect all opinions and know there are many successful paths to fat loss that are possible; I'd simply like a frame of reference as that's my approach.

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on September 04, 2012
at 06:16 AM

because the calories that count the least would be the lean protein and carbs you ate in that 1000 calorie meal. In your example, your body upped burning of and storage of glucose, AS GLUCOSE, not fat and the protein was either used (stored) or excreted but not necessarily used for energy. This is where people get it wrong, you can overfeed multiple times a week and still lose bf due to the contents of the overfeed, timing, and macro ratio. Just stay away from fat during overfeeds.

8425f2fefc608f58a8cc0f2dcaa93341

(381)

on September 04, 2012
at 03:03 AM

I eat a meal first thing when I wake up, lunch, and then dinner. I eat at 8am / 1pm / 7pm. Yes, macros and calorie cycling stayed the same.

91119f53c3827f5c7fc90b98cab85b04

(799)

on September 03, 2012
at 04:47 PM

The point was that if you are at say, 1200 or 1400 kcal a day for a long period of time without changing it up your body will adapt to that level of calories and you will likely stop losing. Bumping up the calories and alternating macronutrient ratios on workout / non workout days has yielded results for me and allowed me to eat more without feeling like I am starving or depriving myself. If you dropped down lower and started losing again thats good but if it stalls again you might want to look at alternating and / or bumping up calories

Medium avatar

(2417)

on September 02, 2012
at 06:06 AM

And, when eating breakfast and (assumed) 3 meals a day, were you still keeping all other aspects of leangains unchanged, as in macro nutrient and calorie cycling?

Medium avatar

(2417)

on September 02, 2012
at 06:04 AM

So you went to three meals spread out per day?

8425f2fefc608f58a8cc0f2dcaa93341

(381)

on September 02, 2012
at 05:07 AM

Yes it did. The fasting worked at first, but as my BF got lower and lower, I eventually stopped losing weight. Once I added breakfast back, the weight started coming off again, and I felt a million times better.

Medium avatar

(2417)

on September 01, 2012
at 07:05 AM

...more lean jerky for dinner (along with green tea and 95%chocolate bites). And, that has cut a centimeter in waist circumference per weekend! It's hard to go back to IF and low cal during the week, but those massive workloads and massive carbs and calories on those trips really burn fat!

Medium avatar

(2417)

on September 01, 2012
at 07:02 AM

Actually, it's mountain climbing season and every weekend I've been doing 2-4 days straight 1500-2000 vertical meters per day, 8hr total hike times, staying 50-70%max heart rate, with a 15kg pack. If I conservatively estimate 500 extra calories burned per hour x 6 hrs that's an extra 3000 calories spent per day. My diet on those days is 50/30/20 c/f/p, 3300 calories, using fatty pemmican for breakfast (no fasting on the trail!), rice, coconut oil, raisins, Wakame, and a spot of dextrose plus a separate bag of lean beef leg jerky for the day's work period, and a ton of white rice, nori, and

Medium avatar

(2417)

on September 01, 2012
at 06:05 AM

Read that. Thanks. I'm not, not have i been getting any "whooshes". I'm under 10%, but it's come off SLOWLY!

Medium avatar

(2417)

on September 01, 2012
at 05:59 AM

Interesting. So cutting out the fasting part of leangains gave you results?

Medium avatar

(2417)

on September 01, 2012
at 05:00 AM

Well, I dropped the calories, slowly, because I wasn't losing much. When I dropped calories, I began to lose. So how would adding the calories back make me lose fat?

Medium avatar

(2417)

on August 31, 2012
at 11:30 PM

How can we effectively tell the difference between modulating hormones for the benefit of our fat loss goals, and rationalizing caving in to our ravenous desire to eat induced by calorie restriction? Get my drift? That extra 1000 calories I ate in carbs and lean fish offset my whole work-week's calorie reduction from baseline.

20203f15287a14924c714eb68a34ce6c

(596)

on August 31, 2012
at 05:57 PM

Second that @"modulate hormone levels". Huge deal in weight loss. I'm 5,10 started cutting at 85kg about 2 months ago in a Leangains aproach, with some 24hour fast more lately, 150-250gr of CHO on training days and already lost 7kg.

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5 Answers

4
1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

on August 31, 2012
at 01:57 PM

Yes, over feed on Carbohydrates as this will restock glycogen supplies AND modulate hormone levels to help you burn fat.

Medium avatar

(2417)

on August 31, 2012
at 11:30 PM

How can we effectively tell the difference between modulating hormones for the benefit of our fat loss goals, and rationalizing caving in to our ravenous desire to eat induced by calorie restriction? Get my drift? That extra 1000 calories I ate in carbs and lean fish offset my whole work-week's calorie reduction from baseline.

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on September 04, 2012
at 06:16 AM

because the calories that count the least would be the lean protein and carbs you ate in that 1000 calorie meal. In your example, your body upped burning of and storage of glucose, AS GLUCOSE, not fat and the protein was either used (stored) or excreted but not necessarily used for energy. This is where people get it wrong, you can overfeed multiple times a week and still lose bf due to the contents of the overfeed, timing, and macro ratio. Just stay away from fat during overfeeds.

20203f15287a14924c714eb68a34ce6c

(596)

on August 31, 2012
at 05:57 PM

Second that @"modulate hormone levels". Huge deal in weight loss. I'm 5,10 started cutting at 85kg about 2 months ago in a Leangains aproach, with some 24hour fast more lately, 150-250gr of CHO on training days and already lost 7kg.

1
C4c952554fbdcdc08ca594ed3049e308

on August 31, 2012
at 02:13 PM

I have found this to be super true. I would have a day of just crazy monster feeding about once a month and think, "Oh no, I'm going to gain weight", then I'd weigh my self a week later and would have lost 5lbs. So I started strategically adding an overfeed day to my week and ended up losing 40lbs in 3 months.

Medium avatar

(2417)

on September 01, 2012
at 07:05 AM

...more lean jerky for dinner (along with green tea and 95%chocolate bites). And, that has cut a centimeter in waist circumference per weekend! It's hard to go back to IF and low cal during the week, but those massive workloads and massive carbs and calories on those trips really burn fat!

Medium avatar

(2417)

on September 01, 2012
at 07:02 AM

Actually, it's mountain climbing season and every weekend I've been doing 2-4 days straight 1500-2000 vertical meters per day, 8hr total hike times, staying 50-70%max heart rate, with a 15kg pack. If I conservatively estimate 500 extra calories burned per hour x 6 hrs that's an extra 3000 calories spent per day. My diet on those days is 50/30/20 c/f/p, 3300 calories, using fatty pemmican for breakfast (no fasting on the trail!), rice, coconut oil, raisins, Wakame, and a spot of dextrose plus a separate bag of lean beef leg jerky for the day's work period, and a ton of white rice, nori, and

1
91119f53c3827f5c7fc90b98cab85b04

(799)

on August 31, 2012
at 01:59 PM

I was following this same protocol and stalled after about 3 to 4 months. I adjusted to alternate-day fasting with an 18/6 fast/feed on non-training days only. I am 5'10" 170 lbs 41 y.o. 15% bodyfat and dropping about 1% every 2 weeks while remaining the same weight

Training days:
- fasted training upon waking (cup of black coffee and 30-40 minute high intensity kettlebell routine) 3-4x/week
- follow up the training immediately with 15g BCAA powder dissolved in water
- follow up 1 hour later with 30-40g protein usually in the form of a shake for convenience purposes (I am commuting to work at this time and have difficulty forcing down a big hunk of solid food after an intense workout. I understand the shake is more insulinogenic than the solid food but post-workout I dont think this is a problem)
- 1000 calorie lunch and dinner with 50-75g of carbs usually from sweet potato but sometimes ill put some black beans or lentils in there for convenience purposes and to get the calories up a bit more
- no adding fat to meals and eating leaner sources of protein (turkey, tuna, egg whites)
- total calories are coming in around 2500 for the day with 100 - 150g carbs

Non-training days are:
- no exercise, recovery stretching, or light yoga (30 - 45 mins)
- "bulletproof coffee" in the am (16 oz coffee w/ 1T each grass fed butter and MCT oil added). I have tried this for a couple of weeks without the coffee and oil and the results were no different, so I have it because it helps me through the fast period.
- breaking the fast 18 hours after my last meal which was dinner the night before at 7 so I usually eat lunch at 1
- 800 calorie lunch dinner, only naturally occurring carbs from vegetables, higher fat sources of protein: whole eggs, beef, bacon, butter, add an additional Tbsp butter or oil to meals
- total calories on these days are coming in around 1800

I dont know what your height, weight, age or training protocol is but would venture to guess that you are not getting enough calories in and your body has adapted causing the plateau. Just try to beef up the calories and add some good carbs on workout days and maybe try alternate day fasting, eating a 500 calorie low-fat, protein-rich breakfast about an hour after your workouts on training days

If you try it out let me know if it works for you, and good luck!

Medium avatar

(2417)

on September 01, 2012
at 05:00 AM

Well, I dropped the calories, slowly, because I wasn't losing much. When I dropped calories, I began to lose. So how would adding the calories back make me lose fat?

91119f53c3827f5c7fc90b98cab85b04

(799)

on September 03, 2012
at 04:47 PM

The point was that if you are at say, 1200 or 1400 kcal a day for a long period of time without changing it up your body will adapt to that level of calories and you will likely stop losing. Bumping up the calories and alternating macronutrient ratios on workout / non workout days has yielded results for me and allowed me to eat more without feeling like I am starving or depriving myself. If you dropped down lower and started losing again thats good but if it stalls again you might want to look at alternating and / or bumping up calories

0
8425f2fefc608f58a8cc0f2dcaa93341

(381)

on August 31, 2012
at 07:19 PM

After 16 weeks of Leangains, I found that 3 weeks off the program while eating at maintenance calories without morning fasting somewhat reset me to keep losing.

In the end though, after losing a couple of more pounds, I found that I had to go back to eating breakfast. It's been great for me though because I'm actually losing more body fat eating breakfast (with the same total daily calories as eaten while on LGs) than I was doing Leangains.

I'm pretty low BF - about 8-9% right now. I started at about 12%.

Medium avatar

(2417)

on September 01, 2012
at 05:59 AM

Interesting. So cutting out the fasting part of leangains gave you results?

8425f2fefc608f58a8cc0f2dcaa93341

(381)

on September 02, 2012
at 05:07 AM

Yes it did. The fasting worked at first, but as my BF got lower and lower, I eventually stopped losing weight. Once I added breakfast back, the weight started coming off again, and I felt a million times better.

Medium avatar

(2417)

on September 02, 2012
at 06:04 AM

So you went to three meals spread out per day?

Medium avatar

(2417)

on September 02, 2012
at 06:06 AM

And, when eating breakfast and (assumed) 3 meals a day, were you still keeping all other aspects of leangains unchanged, as in macro nutrient and calorie cycling?

8425f2fefc608f58a8cc0f2dcaa93341

(381)

on September 04, 2012
at 03:03 AM

I eat a meal first thing when I wake up, lunch, and then dinner. I eat at 8am / 1pm / 7pm. Yes, macros and calorie cycling stayed the same.

0
Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on August 31, 2012
at 05:12 PM

Martin has a great article on his site that was really helpful in my understanding:

http://www.leangains.com/search?q=whoosh

Medium avatar

(2417)

on September 01, 2012
at 06:05 AM

Read that. Thanks. I'm not, not have i been getting any "whooshes". I'm under 10%, but it's come off SLOWLY!

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