1

votes

Why are Paleo Followers Hypocrites when it Comes to Caffeine?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created November 10, 2012 at 9:35 PM

Ok, so I have been somewhat skeptical in the past of certain claims within the paleo community, as my posting history here likely shows. But I have gradually "evolved" in my thinking on this issue, (Largely due to having recently rejected quasi-fundamentalist Christianity, in favor of Agnosticism.) and now fully endorse the idea that evolution can tell us more about diet than most nutritionists or dietitians. Or the Bible for that matter.

But one thing that still drives me kinda nuts is the the fact that paleo-folks will go on and on about the evils of evolutionarily-novel foods such as grains (About 10k years) but swill coffee all day like crazy. Coffee didn't enter the human food chain until about 1000 years ago, right? Wasn't used widely until maybe 100 years ago, or so? So MUCH more evolutionarily novel than grains. So what's with the hypocrisy on this issues? Trying to justify your addiction?

Evolution dictates we should drink water rather than coffee, correct?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 15, 2012
at 04:13 AM

.. still around?

5bac45c78a2be60bc17fc2084a0f5d43

(259)

on November 12, 2012
at 11:06 PM

Another downvote without leaving comment. Forgot how to use key bord or brain?

0df0b1c6ae16bbb75b4a5efa3d876765

(2240)

on November 12, 2012
at 09:45 PM

I think Mystery Man X just hasn't had enough practice at being truly agnostic yet. If he was, he'd just pretty much not give a shit about stuff like this (which is how I feel about this question and others like it). It takes awhile to shed the fundamentalist black/white mindset about everything. More of a random thought than an actual criticism though. I could be way off. But then again, I really don't care one way or another...see what I did there?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 12, 2012
at 07:29 AM

The most significant difference in the saturated fat species between dairy and red meat is in myristic acid (C14) - dairy has 3x the amount of myristic acid compared to beef. Of the saturated fats, myristic acid and palmitic acid have the most atherogenic potential. This is one argument against dairy-fat. The second is the presence of hormones, most notably IGF-1 and estrogen.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 12, 2012
at 06:39 AM

... and as usual, the inevitable vote to close (after 17 answers and 500 views in one day) - let's see if its the usual suspects: MathGirl, Luckie, LikesLard.. whats even more interesting is that the trolling (adversarial comments) are stemming from those who will likely vote to close..

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 12, 2012
at 04:56 AM

Harry - Bacon...

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 12, 2012
at 04:56 AM

MysteryMan - Works for me. I base mine on Anthropology but if others don't like evolution for some strange reason then let them wait or figure it out their own way.

5bac45c78a2be60bc17fc2084a0f5d43

(259)

on November 12, 2012
at 03:18 AM

When I was low carbing I was very defensive about coffee :)

5bac45c78a2be60bc17fc2084a0f5d43

(259)

on November 12, 2012
at 03:11 AM

The logic of statement "we live in non paleo world thus we need to add another non paleo food" escapes me.

153c4e4a22734ded15bf4eb35b448e85

(762)

on November 11, 2012
at 09:13 PM

Hah, best answer thus far :D

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on November 11, 2012
at 05:30 PM

Correlation =/= causation. Icelandic people may also be cold. Perhaps there's a cancer link, too!

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on November 11, 2012
at 05:29 PM

A topic Matt brought up?! You brought up dairy in the sixth comment on this thread with, "But I guess my argument is that dairy fat (Cream) is NOT the same thing as meat fat. (Dairy fat is high in palmitic-acid and natural estrogens)"

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on November 11, 2012
at 05:14 PM

Similar writing style, same modus operandi...

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on November 11, 2012
at 05:01 PM

I had exactly the same thought earlier.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on November 11, 2012
at 04:51 PM

Harry, is that you?

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on November 11, 2012
at 04:47 PM

A much less troll-y question, Luckie.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on November 11, 2012
at 04:35 PM

Several others used that phrase as if it is a common phrase in the Paleosphere.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on November 11, 2012
at 04:21 PM

You're lucky, Luke. My limit is 2 mugs but I sure enjoy them. But as I think about it, 2 mugs is probably 4 traditional coffee cups so the vessel matters too. :-))

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on November 11, 2012
at 04:15 PM

I agree with you, LikesLardinMayo. The accepted label for the approach may be paleo/ancestral/etc. but it comes down to figuring out what your particular body thrives on. i think it's a matter of personal exploration and choice. In my case wheat in any form gives me mild-to-significant grief but rice is fine and I sometimes throw rice in a stew. My taste buds and stomach can't handle black coffee but if I add cream and honey it's a warm, soothing morning drink. I can't drink it all day if I want to sleep. It's the old "your mileage may vary."

2e777bbcd49262eb31a24f821abec6bc

(1974)

on November 11, 2012
at 04:13 PM

I do understand you point. When studies have shown moderate amounts of coffee to cause no harm and my body shows no ill effects from it the I see no reason to avoid it though. In general, my body seems to tell me what it needs and what causes harm pretty well... I really don't find it hypocritical to use a paleo diet as a template and play around with it to see what works best. It seems like a very reasonable way to approach health to me and not hypocritical at all.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on November 11, 2012
at 04:13 PM

Mystery Man X - you are the one who referred to your previous posting history in your question. Matt asking about it was perfectly valid. And, if you did not care about others drinking coffee, I don't think using terms like "hypocritical" and "defending addiction" is the right way to convey that. How about something like, "Paleo coffee drinkers: do you consider your coffee to be Paleo, or do you consider it a cheat?" THERE WE GO.

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 11, 2012
at 04:12 PM

At least you gave Kurt credit for that meme of not engaging in "paleo re-enactment" - several others used that phrase as if they'd invented it.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on November 11, 2012
at 04:03 PM

+1 for "reenactard." Consider that stolen! :)

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on November 11, 2012
at 04:02 PM

Fantastic comment, Raney. I think you really hit it when you pointed out the "need" for hyperstimulation in today's productivity-focused world.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on November 11, 2012
at 04:01 PM

Great comment, Luke, +1.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on November 11, 2012
at 04:00 PM

The major difference is the presence of short chain fatty acids in dairy fat in contrast to animal fat. Certainly isn't the palmitic fat as you claim. And for what it's worth, I stated they are "more similar than different".

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 11, 2012
at 03:49 PM

Hi Britt - If we only go by how we "feel" when eating or not eating a substance, what's that really tell us about the long-term health effects? Many people "feel" just fine on lots of milk...until they get cancer or a serious autoimmune reaction from it one day. I think perhaps too many people in this thread are myopically focused on whether or not they "feel good" when eating/avoiding certain foods. Heck, by that standard I should take a hit of CRACK this morning, as it'll make me feel great. But back to coffee...do you honestly think CHEMICAL STIMULATION is the ideal road to high energy?

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 11, 2012
at 03:42 PM

So Matt you are not able to defend your false assertion that dairy-fat (A topic which YOU brought up) is the same as carcass-fat, so you resort to calling me a troll. Nice.

2e777bbcd49262eb31a24f821abec6bc

(1974)

on November 11, 2012
at 03:31 PM

Actually coffee has been shown to be pretty benign... anyway, I cut grains out and felt tons better. I cut my black coffee out and felt no different. Therefore I still avoid grains but I drink all the black coffee I want.please explain how we are hypocritical for avoiding foods that make us feel like crap??

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on November 11, 2012
at 02:33 PM

Your pattern of replies suggests you're simply here to stir up shit for your own shits and giggles. It's only thing to be critique paleo, it's another thing to simply troll critiques of paleo.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on November 11, 2012
at 02:30 PM

You're obfuscating the issue. I thought we were talking about coffee, and now you're on a dairy rant. Shoo troll.

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 11, 2012
at 02:23 PM

Thanks for disagreeing with my paleo idealism in a reasonable matter. And of course you are correct that many people have indeed adapted to lactose by maintaining "lactose persistence" into adulthood. Just like people of Mideastern descent have at last partially adapted to grains. However, lactose is not the only "bad" part about dairy IMO. Dairy (Even organic) is a hormone cocktail of NATURAL growth hormones, and is strongly linked with prostate cancer, and perhaps breast cancer as well. Iceland has highest per-capita occurrence of breast cancer in world, and they love their milk.

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 11, 2012
at 02:17 PM

Animal fat (Subcutaneous, visceral and intra-muscular) is NOT the same as dairy-fat. You need to get more educated about this matter before making such silly proclamations. All dairy...even "organic" dairy...is a hormone cocktail designed by nature to GROW a calf into a cow. These NATURAL growth hormones and estrogen are great for a calf, but not so great for humans IMO. Fat soluble hormones (Via cream use) in one's coffee make coffee even less ideal than it already is.

D7cc4049bef85d1979efbd853dc07c8e

(4029)

on November 11, 2012
at 02:06 PM

I probably put way too much consideration into my bending, but I do tally things, "can I have this coffee, have I already had too much?" "I'm in a restaurant with my family, what the least compromised meal on the menu that I still would like to eat?" It won't kill me for just a slight temporary deviation. Plus it keeps my stress and anxiety low. And that's great!

E253f8ac1d139bf4d0bfb44debd1db21

on November 11, 2012
at 01:59 PM

Nailed it mystery man..

D7cc4049bef85d1979efbd853dc07c8e

(4029)

on November 11, 2012
at 01:59 PM

Just because it is Neolithic/industrial doesn't mean we can't tolerate it or aren't adapted for it. I'm Scandinavian heritage, I'm handle dairy exceptionally well so I'm keeping it in. Evolution isn't static, when a new food source comes along it isn't unheard of for species to adapt for a new food source. Plus, in my own n=1 experimenting, a little bending guidelines now and then doesn't wreck my health and makes me feel good. Maybe this is just insanity justification, but in another context "cleanliness is next to godliness, but sterile is death". I keep my diet clean, but not pure.

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 11, 2012
at 01:51 PM

Your misuse of the word fundamentalist is duly noted.

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 11, 2012
at 01:48 PM

So how does one who actually believes very strongly in paleo concept qualify as a troll on a paleo-site? Gee, you'd think I came in here spouting some vegan propaganda or something. Sorry you find the notion of STRICT paleo so offensive.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on November 11, 2012
at 01:45 PM

Ok, you're just an occasional troll. That's good news, you'll get bored soon. :)

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on November 11, 2012
at 01:44 PM

Backpeddling now? :) Animal fat is animal fat, and dairy fat is animal fat, more similar than different (though I thought you were talking about coffee, no requirement to use dairy!) Humans eating plants are exposed to thousands upon thousands of small biogenic molecules, some beneficial, some neutral, some detrimental... Caffiene if anything shows characteristics of all 3 classes, depending on dose.

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 11, 2012
at 01:07 PM

So we really don't even need the paleo-meme at all then, right? Just lets all do our own personal experiments and let that determine things. Bravo!

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 11, 2012
at 01:04 PM

Great post! Though I would still argue that on the LONG-RUN stimulant drugs of any kind to NOT fuel hyper-achievement but actually REDUCE overall energy levels. Short-term chemical stimulation works only in the short-term. Perhaps good for occasional use such as staying awake while taking a long car trip, but not so good for daily use/abuse. But yes...our entire culture is very non-paleo. Which is why I craze a move to a more rural area...but tough to make a living in the boonies.

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 11, 2012
at 12:59 PM

Hi Daz - Of course what one is genetically adapted to, will vary from person to person, and may have lots to do with where your ancestors lived. The plants you mention are all found in more tropical zones I believe? I doubt people of more Northern European descent have been exposed to such drugs for very long however. Though they may have occasionally used mind-altering mushrooms. In fact, I think shrooms may have contributed to the formation of religion. But just a guess on my part. Regarding cars...do you think they have made a positive contribution to human health? Or just convencince?

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 11, 2012
at 12:53 PM

Hi Manul - This is the first comment in this thread that wasn't someone digging in their heels and getting all defensive about things.

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 11, 2012
at 12:51 PM

The Blue Zone people, such as Okinawans and the ones in Italy have genetic mutations from in-breeding which give them unusual longevity. I suspect lower stress lifestyles also play a role. And of course the authors of that book had a low-fat "plant based diet" agenda with that book, otherwise how can one explain their omission of the fact that Okinawans traditionally eat lots of Spam and pork? In fact, Okinawa means "The Land of Pork" I believe.

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 11, 2012
at 12:46 PM

If money issues prevent one from following paleo, that is NOT being hypocritical. I was once very poor, and know what it is like to struggle to feed yourself a healthy diet.

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 11, 2012
at 12:44 PM

Health isn't a good reason to avoid or limit caffeine? Oh dear. Just not sure how to even address that fallacy.

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 11, 2012
at 12:41 PM

@ Anondson - As mentioned, even I am not 100% pure about paleo...yet. Working on it however. And I admit my hypocrisy. But if you truly believe paleo = better than neolithic or industrial foods, then why would you not want to eventually wean yourself off less than optimum foods? Unless of course you believe neolithic/industrial foods can optimize human health as well as paleo foods?

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 11, 2012
at 12:35 PM

Hi Matt - A kangaroo/marsupial is of course "close enough" to a loins evolution-diet to work. Meat = protein and animal fat, right? Whether from a Zebra or a Kangaroo. But I guess my argument is that dairy fat (Cream) is NOT the same thing as meat fat. (Dairy fat is high in palmitic-acid and natural estrogens) And caffeine does not to the best of my knowledge resemble anything humans are evolutionarily built to consume. We are all of course free to violate the laws of nature, but in the long-run nature will laugh at our arrogance and folly.

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 11, 2012
at 12:27 PM

@ Luckie - Could care less if someone eats bacon or drinks coffee. Heck, I even eat bacon at times. I also use Splenda at times. But at least I have the intellectual honesty to admit I am being a dietary hypocrite when I eat such non-Paleo foods. And since I really do believe my health can only improve in direct relation to who much I adhere to an evolutionary template, I intend to gradually remove all non-paleo foods from my diet. But I really do find it ironic to be called a troll for this "confrontational" post, when paleo folks are often full of DRAMA...PaleoDrama.tumblr.com anyone?

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 11, 2012
at 12:21 PM

Hi Matt - I'm touched that you would look up my user-name history. Very stalker-like of you mate. I've actually always been Mystery Man X...though I may have spelled it differently yesterday due to being on a different PC, and not remembering my login info for this site which i rarely visit.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 11, 2012
at 10:31 AM

yes, we know its not a re-enactment.. as you said, anthropology informs the theory but in this case there is no evidence of coffee consumption during paleolithic times - that's his point. Try not to swear - or is that something you feel is paleo?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 11, 2012
at 05:33 AM

Also, it wouldn't have been the Christian God, since the Christian God didn't exist in the Palaeolithic. We hadn't created it yet.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 11, 2012
at 05:29 AM

I gotta say all I had for breakfast today was bacon, coffee and heavy cream. These two are gonna wanna f-me up....

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 11, 2012
at 05:27 AM

Yes, he does but it is all about Bacon and how it shrivels testicles...even yours Luckie...even yours.

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on November 11, 2012
at 04:54 AM

Harry's still angry that no one jumped on his bacon-hating bandwagon.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on November 11, 2012
at 03:59 AM

Got a citation?

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on November 11, 2012
at 03:59 AM

Since when do I post questions judging people for consuming things that I don't consider optimal and making strawman arguments? Bacon-hater, meet coffee-hater, you two should get along great.

2e6e673ce3eb647407d260d4d57a731b

(1021)

on November 11, 2012
at 02:43 AM

thats nice. you know damn well what my point was. enough with the nitpicking

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 11, 2012
at 02:41 AM

-1 health can be a reason for decreasing coffee consumption in slow caffeine metabolizers.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 11, 2012
at 02:39 AM

Jake, Grok would have thanked God if he survived the encounter. If he lay dyeing he would have committed his soul to God.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on November 11, 2012
at 02:33 AM

Sometimes hypocrisy can be excused when economy is necessary.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 11, 2012
at 02:33 AM

Luckie, pot calling kettle black?

2e6e673ce3eb647407d260d4d57a731b

(1021)

on November 11, 2012
at 01:37 AM

what humans 'evolved' to eat is an arbitrary decison much of the time. if coffee doesnt hurt you then 'WWGD' is pointless. there can be other reasons for avoiding coffee but health isnt one of them.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on November 11, 2012
at 12:06 AM

Care to share your previous posting personas? Since MMX appears to be your latest name du-jour.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on November 11, 2012
at 12:05 AM

MMX, but a lion doesn't eat significant plant matter, a corn-based diet doesn't fit their evolutionary framework. It's like feeding a lion a kangoroo. Something it's never eaten before, but that doesn't mean it's not compatible.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on November 10, 2012
at 10:33 PM

Probably so, if he'd had them, making "What would Grok do?" a poor qualifier for Paleo choices.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on November 10, 2012
at 10:32 PM

Whether or not it is hypocritical is not relevant to my point. My point is that if an open discussion is your goal, taking the accusatory and judgmental statements out of your question would facilitate that goal.

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 10, 2012
at 10:27 PM

Grock would also have eaten bread, muffins, and cocoa-puffs, right?

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 10, 2012
at 10:26 PM

It is indeed a bit hypocritical to say you believe evolution dictates the optimum diet for human health, yet do not follow evolution but rather your taste-buds or desire for chemical stimulation. I like how one person replied...she said she is a hypocrite on this issue and doesn't care. Now that is an answer I can respect. But you seem rather defensive? Caffeine jitters gotcha worked up? (<: But perhaps you're right, and I could have worded my post more diplomatically.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on November 10, 2012
at 10:15 PM

What would Grok do? If he had access to coffee and knew how to prepare it, I bet Grok would be like "OMGYAY SET YOUR PHASERS TO PHUN THIS IS AMAZING."

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 10, 2012
at 10:14 PM

BTW - Certainly not my intent to be critical of anyone's religious views. If a Christian asks me to justify my reasoning for why I no longer accept the Bible as the infallible Word of God, I will will be happy to oblige, but will never be one of those agnostics/athiests who feel it's my duty to undermine people's faith. Faith is what get many people through very difficult times in their life, and I have no desire to take away that comfort from them.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on November 10, 2012
at 10:13 PM

If you are looking for constructive feedback and open discussion, you may want to ask your question without the "hypocrisy" and "justification" bits. If you're just trolling, though, it fits.

5f6d15c9dd935b6fed3623caf984c14e

(439)

on November 10, 2012
at 10:06 PM

when grok was being chased by a tiger or getting impaled by a tusk of a wooly mammoth, I wonder if he was thanking God (who apparently had not sent his son on a suicide mission yet) for cultivating evolution so that a beast could eat him alive. food for thought. no pun intended

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 10, 2012
at 10:05 PM

But then you are rejecting the very foundation of the Paleo Diet. That we should only eat foods and drink beverages which we have evolved to eat. Just like any animal in the zoo. We wouldn't feed a lion corn, right? If you reject "what would Grock do" then it seems ti me you are only partially following evolution, and partially following your wants and desires for neolithic foods/drugs.

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 10, 2012
at 10:01 PM

I also used to feel superhuman on caffeine. Just like meth makes people feel superhuman...for awhile. But after years of caffeine use I found it actually TOOK AWAY more energy than it "gave" me. Does not really "give energy" anyway, but rather delivers chemical-stimulation. Americans drink TONS of caffeine and are overall EXHAUSTED. I believe caffeine gives short-term chemical stimulation and long-term fatigue.

1de8975d6fcf31a1240d863e85744bd5

(145)

on November 10, 2012
at 09:48 PM

P.S. Am I a hypocrite? FOR SURE! I'm human...not superwoman.

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17 Answers

9
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on November 10, 2012
at 09:44 PM

Paleo is not reenactment. Just because coffee wasn't consumed during human evolution thousands of years ago doesn't mean that it's bad or that it shouldn't be consumed today.

"What would Grok do?" is a fine simplifying rule for paleo, but it's not the end all for determining paleo appropriateness.

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 11, 2012
at 02:17 PM

Animal fat (Subcutaneous, visceral and intra-muscular) is NOT the same as dairy-fat. You need to get more educated about this matter before making such silly proclamations. All dairy...even "organic" dairy...is a hormone cocktail designed by nature to GROW a calf into a cow. These NATURAL growth hormones and estrogen are great for a calf, but not so great for humans IMO. Fat soluble hormones (Via cream use) in one's coffee make coffee even less ideal than it already is.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on November 11, 2012
at 01:44 PM

Backpeddling now? :) Animal fat is animal fat, and dairy fat is animal fat, more similar than different (though I thought you were talking about coffee, no requirement to use dairy!) Humans eating plants are exposed to thousands upon thousands of small biogenic molecules, some beneficial, some neutral, some detrimental... Caffiene if anything shows characteristics of all 3 classes, depending on dose.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on November 11, 2012
at 02:30 PM

You're obfuscating the issue. I thought we were talking about coffee, and now you're on a dairy rant. Shoo troll.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on November 11, 2012
at 05:29 PM

A topic Matt brought up?! You brought up dairy in the sixth comment on this thread with, "But I guess my argument is that dairy fat (Cream) is NOT the same thing as meat fat. (Dairy fat is high in palmitic-acid and natural estrogens)"

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 10, 2012
at 10:27 PM

Grock would also have eaten bread, muffins, and cocoa-puffs, right?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 12, 2012
at 07:29 AM

The most significant difference in the saturated fat species between dairy and red meat is in myristic acid (C14) - dairy has 3x the amount of myristic acid compared to beef. Of the saturated fats, myristic acid and palmitic acid have the most atherogenic potential. This is one argument against dairy-fat. The second is the presence of hormones, most notably IGF-1 and estrogen.

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 10, 2012
at 10:05 PM

But then you are rejecting the very foundation of the Paleo Diet. That we should only eat foods and drink beverages which we have evolved to eat. Just like any animal in the zoo. We wouldn't feed a lion corn, right? If you reject "what would Grock do" then it seems ti me you are only partially following evolution, and partially following your wants and desires for neolithic foods/drugs.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on November 10, 2012
at 10:15 PM

What would Grok do? If he had access to coffee and knew how to prepare it, I bet Grok would be like "OMGYAY SET YOUR PHASERS TO PHUN THIS IS AMAZING."

2e6e673ce3eb647407d260d4d57a731b

(1021)

on November 11, 2012
at 01:37 AM

what humans 'evolved' to eat is an arbitrary decison much of the time. if coffee doesnt hurt you then 'WWGD' is pointless. there can be other reasons for avoiding coffee but health isnt one of them.

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 11, 2012
at 03:42 PM

So Matt you are not able to defend your false assertion that dairy-fat (A topic which YOU brought up) is the same as carcass-fat, so you resort to calling me a troll. Nice.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on November 11, 2012
at 04:00 PM

The major difference is the presence of short chain fatty acids in dairy fat in contrast to animal fat. Certainly isn't the palmitic fat as you claim. And for what it's worth, I stated they are "more similar than different".

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on November 11, 2012
at 12:05 AM

MMX, but a lion doesn't eat significant plant matter, a corn-based diet doesn't fit their evolutionary framework. It's like feeding a lion a kangoroo. Something it's never eaten before, but that doesn't mean it's not compatible.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on November 10, 2012
at 10:33 PM

Probably so, if he'd had them, making "What would Grok do?" a poor qualifier for Paleo choices.

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 11, 2012
at 12:35 PM

Hi Matt - A kangaroo/marsupial is of course "close enough" to a loins evolution-diet to work. Meat = protein and animal fat, right? Whether from a Zebra or a Kangaroo. But I guess my argument is that dairy fat (Cream) is NOT the same thing as meat fat. (Dairy fat is high in palmitic-acid and natural estrogens) And caffeine does not to the best of my knowledge resemble anything humans are evolutionarily built to consume. We are all of course free to violate the laws of nature, but in the long-run nature will laugh at our arrogance and folly.

8
1de8975d6fcf31a1240d863e85744bd5

on November 10, 2012
at 09:47 PM

Just my two cents...I consider myself a Christian but I don't reject the theory of evolution. Could you just maybe be overthinking this? It's not like the paleo diet is a religion. I eat this way because it makes me feel awesome, and I could care less when coffee was introduced to the human food chain. It is a magical elixir of happiness, I love it, and it makes me feel like superwoman. Oh, and I drink lots of water too...

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 10, 2012
at 10:14 PM

BTW - Certainly not my intent to be critical of anyone's religious views. If a Christian asks me to justify my reasoning for why I no longer accept the Bible as the infallible Word of God, I will will be happy to oblige, but will never be one of those agnostics/athiests who feel it's my duty to undermine people's faith. Faith is what get many people through very difficult times in their life, and I have no desire to take away that comfort from them.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 11, 2012
at 05:27 AM

Yes, he does but it is all about Bacon and how it shrivels testicles...even yours Luckie...even yours.

5f6d15c9dd935b6fed3623caf984c14e

(439)

on November 10, 2012
at 10:06 PM

when grok was being chased by a tiger or getting impaled by a tusk of a wooly mammoth, I wonder if he was thanking God (who apparently had not sent his son on a suicide mission yet) for cultivating evolution so that a beast could eat him alive. food for thought. no pun intended

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on November 11, 2012
at 03:59 AM

Got a citation?

1de8975d6fcf31a1240d863e85744bd5

(145)

on November 10, 2012
at 09:48 PM

P.S. Am I a hypocrite? FOR SURE! I'm human...not superwoman.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 11, 2012
at 05:33 AM

Also, it wouldn't have been the Christian God, since the Christian God didn't exist in the Palaeolithic. We hadn't created it yet.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 11, 2012
at 02:39 AM

Jake, Grok would have thanked God if he survived the encounter. If he lay dyeing he would have committed his soul to God.

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 10, 2012
at 10:01 PM

I also used to feel superhuman on caffeine. Just like meth makes people feel superhuman...for awhile. But after years of caffeine use I found it actually TOOK AWAY more energy than it "gave" me. Does not really "give energy" anyway, but rather delivers chemical-stimulation. Americans drink TONS of caffeine and are overall EXHAUSTED. I believe caffeine gives short-term chemical stimulation and long-term fatigue.

7
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 11, 2012
at 05:25 AM

What Harry and the OP aren't getting is the idea of the Paleo Diet being a situation where anthropology informs theories which are then test. This is not historical re-enactment.

Let me say that again. This. Is. Not. Historical. Re-enactment.

The point is to say what foods did our ancestors eat, and what have we had the greatest amount of time to adapt to. We then say "grains" are evolutionarily novel, maybe they are a problem. We either test that in lab or we do our own N=1, we remove the food, re-add it after 30 days and...sure enough it was a poor choice. Same with legumes.

So I drink coffee. I easily drop it for 30 days. I don't sleep better. I don't feel better. I don't lose weight. I don't feel happier. My breakfast is less tasty and warm.

I add it back and my mornings are little nicer, warmer, tastier and nothing health related changes.

I'm in. Sorry if that doesn't stand up to the extremists search for purity but I don't fuckin' care.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 11, 2012
at 10:31 AM

yes, we know its not a re-enactment.. as you said, anthropology informs the theory but in this case there is no evidence of coffee consumption during paleolithic times - that's his point. Try not to swear - or is that something you feel is paleo?

E253f8ac1d139bf4d0bfb44debd1db21

on November 11, 2012
at 01:59 PM

Nailed it mystery man..

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 12, 2012
at 04:56 AM

MysteryMan - Works for me. I base mine on Anthropology but if others don't like evolution for some strange reason then let them wait or figure it out their own way.

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 11, 2012
at 01:07 PM

So we really don't even need the paleo-meme at all then, right? Just lets all do our own personal experiments and let that determine things. Bravo!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 12, 2012
at 04:56 AM

Harry - Bacon...

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on November 11, 2012
at 04:15 PM

I agree with you, LikesLardinMayo. The accepted label for the approach may be paleo/ancestral/etc. but it comes down to figuring out what your particular body thrives on. i think it's a matter of personal exploration and choice. In my case wheat in any form gives me mild-to-significant grief but rice is fine and I sometimes throw rice in a stew. My taste buds and stomach can't handle black coffee but if I add cream and honey it's a warm, soothing morning drink. I can't drink it all day if I want to sleep. It's the old "your mileage may vary."

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 15, 2012
at 04:13 AM

.. still around?

5
4b9077bdc5240ddeb48b2125c1bd6265

(158)

on November 11, 2012
at 01:37 PM

I like the version of how paleo gives us clues about how we are evolved to eat. The rest is up to you to listen to your body and make your mind up about what works and doesn't work for you.

If I drink milk I get all stuffy. If I eat bread I bloat up and feel crap. If I drink coffee I feel fine until I go for the 5th cup of so of the day. Then I start to feel "not quite right." I pay attention to this and don't have any more coffee for the day and make a mental note that too much coffee might not work for me.

Am I trying to recreate what "grok" ate? No way. I don't think we could ever do that 100%. I'm sure most of us wouldn't last very long if we took off all our clothes and headed for the wild. If someone is trying to do that and drinks coffee then I will agree that they are a hypocrite. If they are using the clues from evolution, keeping an open mind and paying attention to how they respond to what they put into their body then I think not.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on November 11, 2012
at 04:01 PM

Great comment, Luke, +1.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on November 11, 2012
at 04:21 PM

You're lucky, Luke. My limit is 2 mugs but I sure enjoy them. But as I think about it, 2 mugs is probably 4 traditional coffee cups so the vessel matters too. :-))

5
D7cc4049bef85d1979efbd853dc07c8e

(4029)

on November 11, 2012
at 04:22 AM

You can put your measurement of 100% purity for membership in the Paleo club somewhere else. Paleo is a template that informs decisions, not a reenactment SCA group.

Try things out, do they make you look, feel, perform better? Do it.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on November 11, 2012
at 05:30 PM

Correlation =/= causation. Icelandic people may also be cold. Perhaps there's a cancer link, too!

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on November 11, 2012
at 04:51 PM

Harry, is that you?

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 11, 2012
at 02:23 PM

Thanks for disagreeing with my paleo idealism in a reasonable matter. And of course you are correct that many people have indeed adapted to lactose by maintaining "lactose persistence" into adulthood. Just like people of Mideastern descent have at last partially adapted to grains. However, lactose is not the only "bad" part about dairy IMO. Dairy (Even organic) is a hormone cocktail of NATURAL growth hormones, and is strongly linked with prostate cancer, and perhaps breast cancer as well. Iceland has highest per-capita occurrence of breast cancer in world, and they love their milk.

D7cc4049bef85d1979efbd853dc07c8e

(4029)

on November 11, 2012
at 01:59 PM

Just because it is Neolithic/industrial doesn't mean we can't tolerate it or aren't adapted for it. I'm Scandinavian heritage, I'm handle dairy exceptionally well so I'm keeping it in. Evolution isn't static, when a new food source comes along it isn't unheard of for species to adapt for a new food source. Plus, in my own n=1 experimenting, a little bending guidelines now and then doesn't wreck my health and makes me feel good. Maybe this is just insanity justification, but in another context "cleanliness is next to godliness, but sterile is death". I keep my diet clean, but not pure.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on November 11, 2012
at 05:01 PM

I had exactly the same thought earlier.

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 11, 2012
at 12:41 PM

@ Anondson - As mentioned, even I am not 100% pure about paleo...yet. Working on it however. And I admit my hypocrisy. But if you truly believe paleo = better than neolithic or industrial foods, then why would you not want to eventually wean yourself off less than optimum foods? Unless of course you believe neolithic/industrial foods can optimize human health as well as paleo foods?

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on November 11, 2012
at 05:14 PM

Similar writing style, same modus operandi...

D7cc4049bef85d1979efbd853dc07c8e

(4029)

on November 11, 2012
at 02:06 PM

I probably put way too much consideration into my bending, but I do tally things, "can I have this coffee, have I already had too much?" "I'm in a restaurant with my family, what the least compromised meal on the menu that I still would like to eat?" It won't kill me for just a slight temporary deviation. Plus it keeps my stress and anxiety low. And that's great!

5
B41cdb2253976ba9b429dd608d02c21f

(1495)

on November 11, 2012
at 03:21 AM

Paleo man didn't have a box with a roof called a house either, but I'm choosing to keep both my house and my coffee and omit the grains that make me sick to my stomach.

4
0df0b1c6ae16bbb75b4a5efa3d876765

(2240)

on November 11, 2012
at 03:46 PM

I agree with and recommend a less dogmatic approach as well, something along the lines of Kurt Harris' article, The Only Reasonable Paleo Principle.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on November 11, 2012
at 04:35 PM

Several others used that phrase as if it is a common phrase in the Paleosphere.

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 11, 2012
at 04:12 PM

At least you gave Kurt credit for that meme of not engaging in "paleo re-enactment" - several others used that phrase as if they'd invented it.

4
Cc3ce03985eac5ebcbb95fc2329f13b0

on November 11, 2012
at 06:43 AM

"Why are people hypocrites?"

Because they're people.

Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.) Walt Whitman, "Song of Myself"

It's a rich and annoying tapestry. Once in awhile, we get some pie. Well, not us, so much.

153c4e4a22734ded15bf4eb35b448e85

(762)

on November 11, 2012
at 09:13 PM

Hah, best answer thus far :D

3
Medium avatar

(10611)

on November 11, 2012
at 12:27 AM

Paleo diet in its modern religious form embraces all sorts of hypocrisy. Besides the coffee how would Grok have determined his 3/6 ratios and manufactured fish oil capsules? How would he have obtained his leaf lard and butter? Coffee is small Neolithic potatoes compared to figuring out how our ancestors could possibly have eaten an invariant high fat diet, stayed in perpetual ketosis (aka Atkins induction) and reset their leptin.

I've settled on examining the ancestor trails for the best clues on what to eat. Before Atkins, Weston Price and Kruse.

A good way to face down paleo hypocrisy is to read anthropology books. Another one is to look in the mirror.

2
510bdda8988ed0d4b0ec0b738b4edb73

(20888)

on November 11, 2012
at 05:08 PM

Well, believing in paleo as a reinactment is just as silly as being a fundamentalist and not believing in evolution. The world isn't all-or-nothing, one-right-answer to rule them all.

The reason paleo is called paleo is that a bunch of people formed a hypothesis that it was modern foods that were making people sick and fat. So they did the sciency thing and looked through the anthropological records and found that cavemen weren't sick and fat. So since that supported the hypothesis they went digging more.

Then they experimented by taking out neolithic foods and only ate foods that were as close as they could get to paleolithic foods. And lo and behold, people reversed their sickness and fatness. Yay, something else that supported the hypothesis.

Now, the next step in science is to figure out why the paleolithic foods are "good" and the neolithic ones are "bad". So then the chemists and biologists get involved and each one makes a hypothesis and tests it, trying to find the common thread. It turns out that there are really bad things, and those are the grains, particularly the gluten-containing grains. Then there are less bad things, or at least, they're only bad for some people, those are things like dairy, nightshades, etc. And then there are things that weren't specifically available in the paleolithic era, like caffeine, yet still aren't bad for most people and sometimes actually are good.

You see, science is all about starting with an hypothesis, testing the hypothesis, and then digging deeper to figure out why. It doesn't make anyone a hypocrite when they test some food and find out that it's not bad for them even if it is neolithic. It's all about finding what works for you and your goals. You need a framework, or starting place: neolithic foods are causing sickness and fatness. But that doesn't mean there are exceptions: not all paleolithic foods are good, not all neolithic foods are bad.

The problem comes on either side of science, those that say evolution isn't real, so paleo isn't real. Or those that blindly say, if it was/wasn't available to a caveman it's good/bad. This actually requires thought, experimentation, analysis, and nuance. Above all it requires thinking and acting like a scientist.

2
0d0842381492a41b2173a04014aae810

(4875)

on November 11, 2012
at 05:49 AM

One could make the argument that our modern world is wrought with hyper-stimulus that we are evolutionarily unequipped to handle: long work days, cars that carry us faster than our ancestors could have ever imagined, and a global society (and political system) that eclipses the familiar territory of the intimate social concepts of a tribe that we evolved under; most of us living in urban areas pass by more humans in a day than our ancestors did in their entire lifetimes.

Under that supposition, perhaps a good portion of us need to be functioning under the influence of a hyper-stimuluating drug to function in such a world; to live a life of accomplishment that one couldn't rightly call "human", in an ancestral sense. One look at the flourishing of adderall/modafinil and the positions in corporate society that their users hold will attest to the Western exaltation of inhuman levels of achievement. Caffeine-fueled overachievement has come to be considered baseline in a lot of environments.

Or perhaps it's just another addictive substance that our vanity didn't have to eschew in the way of sugar, since the affects aren't quite as tangible. After all, given all of the above, we're not exactly living spiritually rich lives; our world isn't designed to foster them. Who would notice if they were suppressing their creativity, spontaneity, and perpetually dampening their moods?

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 11, 2012
at 01:04 PM

Great post! Though I would still argue that on the LONG-RUN stimulant drugs of any kind to NOT fuel hyper-achievement but actually REDUCE overall energy levels. Short-term chemical stimulation works only in the short-term. Perhaps good for occasional use such as staying awake while taking a long car trip, but not so good for daily use/abuse. But yes...our entire culture is very non-paleo. Which is why I craze a move to a more rural area...but tough to make a living in the boonies.

5bac45c78a2be60bc17fc2084a0f5d43

(259)

on November 12, 2012
at 03:11 AM

The logic of statement "we live in non paleo world thus we need to add another non paleo food" escapes me.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on November 11, 2012
at 04:02 PM

Fantastic comment, Raney. I think you really hit it when you pointed out the "need" for hyperstimulation in today's productivity-focused world.

2
2e6e673ce3eb647407d260d4d57a731b

(1021)

on November 11, 2012
at 01:55 AM

what humans 'evolved' to eat is an arbitrary decision much of the time. if health and side effects are your only concerns then 'what would grok do' isnt relevant. there can be other legitimate reasons for avoiding coffee. but health isnt one of them.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 11, 2012
at 02:41 AM

-1 health can be a reason for decreasing coffee consumption in slow caffeine metabolizers.

2e6e673ce3eb647407d260d4d57a731b

(1021)

on November 11, 2012
at 02:43 AM

thats nice. you know damn well what my point was. enough with the nitpicking

2e777bbcd49262eb31a24f821abec6bc

(1974)

on November 11, 2012
at 04:13 PM

I do understand you point. When studies have shown moderate amounts of coffee to cause no harm and my body shows no ill effects from it the I see no reason to avoid it though. In general, my body seems to tell me what it needs and what causes harm pretty well... I really don't find it hypocritical to use a paleo diet as a template and play around with it to see what works best. It seems like a very reasonable way to approach health to me and not hypocritical at all.

2e777bbcd49262eb31a24f821abec6bc

(1974)

on November 11, 2012
at 03:31 PM

Actually coffee has been shown to be pretty benign... anyway, I cut grains out and felt tons better. I cut my black coffee out and felt no different. Therefore I still avoid grains but I drink all the black coffee I want.please explain how we are hypocritical for avoiding foods that make us feel like crap??

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 11, 2012
at 12:44 PM

Health isn't a good reason to avoid or limit caffeine? Oh dear. Just not sure how to even address that fallacy.

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 11, 2012
at 03:49 PM

Hi Britt - If we only go by how we "feel" when eating or not eating a substance, what's that really tell us about the long-term health effects? Many people "feel" just fine on lots of milk...until they get cancer or a serious autoimmune reaction from it one day. I think perhaps too many people in this thread are myopically focused on whether or not they "feel good" when eating/avoiding certain foods. Heck, by that standard I should take a hit of CRACK this morning, as it'll make me feel great. But back to coffee...do you honestly think CHEMICAL STIMULATION is the ideal road to high energy?

1
7e1433afbb06c318c4d90860d493c49d

(5959)

on November 11, 2012
at 01:13 PM

Not being a reenactard fundamentalist, I get to live by the primal 80/20 rule.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on November 11, 2012
at 04:03 PM

+1 for "reenactard." Consider that stolen! :)

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 11, 2012
at 01:51 PM

Your misuse of the word fundamentalist is duly noted.

1
543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on November 11, 2012
at 06:30 AM

Who knows, grok may have got his caffeine fix, chewing on some leaves or something.
Who knows what was around in the day, here are a few of today's sources; Yerba mate, Ilex guayusa, Ilex vomitoria, Theobroma cacao, Guarana, Kola nut...
I wouldn't be suprised if plant sources of caffeine have been around for a while.

& coffee is just another hack, a hack to get caffeine in a drink, after all this site is called PaleoHacks.

i even drive a car, not very paleo i know, but i can just picture grok getting around in one today.

i don't actually drink coffee myself, but i do do the odd guarana drink.

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 11, 2012
at 12:59 PM

Hi Daz - Of course what one is genetically adapted to, will vary from person to person, and may have lots to do with where your ancestors lived. The plants you mention are all found in more tropical zones I believe? I doubt people of more Northern European descent have been exposed to such drugs for very long however. Though they may have occasionally used mind-altering mushrooms. In fact, I think shrooms may have contributed to the formation of religion. But just a guess on my part. Regarding cars...do you think they have made a positive contribution to human health? Or just convencince?

1
5bac45c78a2be60bc17fc2084a0f5d43

(259)

on November 11, 2012
at 06:20 AM

Nice discussion here What is with all the coffee??

Of course coffee is not paleo. And very probably not healthy. But people will go a long way defending their addictions.

Congratulations on getting rid of religion brain fog.

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 11, 2012
at 12:53 PM

Hi Manul - This is the first comment in this thread that wasn't someone digging in their heels and getting all defensive about things.

5bac45c78a2be60bc17fc2084a0f5d43

(259)

on November 12, 2012
at 03:18 AM

When I was low carbing I was very defensive about coffee :)

5bac45c78a2be60bc17fc2084a0f5d43

(259)

on November 12, 2012
at 11:06 PM

Another downvote without leaving comment. Forgot how to use key bord or brain?

1
E95216c62a14d21c371fcbf2fed8469b

(1867)

on November 11, 2012
at 06:06 AM

Life is entirely too short and also the very long lived people in the "blue zones" don't spend endless hours on the Internet debating this crap. Drink it or don't drink it.

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 11, 2012
at 12:51 PM

The Blue Zone people, such as Okinawans and the ones in Italy have genetic mutations from in-breeding which give them unusual longevity. I suspect lower stress lifestyles also play a role. And of course the authors of that book had a low-fat "plant based diet" agenda with that book, otherwise how can one explain their omission of the fact that Okinawans traditionally eat lots of Spam and pork? In fact, Okinawa means "The Land of Pork" I believe.

1
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 11, 2012
at 02:23 AM

As you will see - if you already haven't - there are numerous versions of paleo that people seem to follow. To my surprise, for example, I came across a poster who mentioned the convenience of consuming Cheerios from time to time. From my perspective that's worse than my annoyance - preservative infused bacon - but there's very much a n=1 type of mentality amongst this particular community and so long as they continue to experience significant health benefits in themselves that's what counts.

However, the problem arises when giving inconsistent advice - what you may point out as hypocrisy - particularly to newcomers on this site who equate reputation score with knowledge or credentials.

In the final analysis, Paleo followers can appear to be hypocrites based on what one's definition of paleo is. It may help if those giving recommendations declare the type of paleo they follow.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on November 11, 2012
at 02:33 AM

Sometimes hypocrisy can be excused when economy is necessary.

0a0afca93a127c82ec4192a2e99647f4

on November 11, 2012
at 12:46 PM

If money issues prevent one from following paleo, that is NOT being hypocritical. I was once very poor, and know what it is like to struggle to feed yourself a healthy diet.

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