6

votes

What do you think of the "Mastering Leptin" rules for leptin management?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created August 04, 2011 at 7:12 PM

From the book "Mastering Leptin" come these five rules for losing weight and/or managing other hormonal issues:

Rule 1: Never eat after dinner. Allow eleven to twelve hours between dinner and breakfast. Never go to bed on a full stomach. Finish eating dinner at least three hours before bed.

Rule 2: Eat three meals a day. Allow five to six hours between meals. Do not snack.

Rule 3: Do not eat large meals. If you are overweight, always try to finish a meal when you are slightly less than full; the full signal will usually catch up in ten to twenty minutes. Eating slowly is important.

Rule 4: Eat a breakfast containing protein.

Rule 5: Reduce the amount of carbohydrates you eat.

Does anyone follow these rules inadvertently?

The book does give allowances for highly active athletes who require more carbs as well as those who have good liver function who only eat two (or even one!) meals per day. These are recommendations mostly for those who have some hormonal issues and/or weight to lose.

So, what do you think? Does this make sense?

P.S. Since much of the paleo belief system is about managing hormones (ie insulin/glucagon), I think this is a relevant questions for PaleoHackers.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 20, 2011
at 03:12 PM

IF doesn't seem to work as well for obese people who have screwed up hormones. Dr. Kruse talks about this in his blog as well. I tried IF for months and didn't lose a single pound. When I am no longer obese (bodyfat < 25% is my goal), I plan to start leangains style of IF. But for now, with BF ~28%, it won't work right.

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on August 05, 2011
at 10:30 PM

People who don't experience hunger in the AM should look into ghrelin, eh?

05055dcbf12c81f1cce777ec365870af

(1791)

on August 05, 2011
at 08:54 PM

in chinese medicine, not waking up hungry is a sign of problems, spleen deficiency i think. it makes sense, when i was younger, had more energy and was more active i was always hungry in the morning, now not so much and i think its a problem since hunger is a primal force and kind of increases enthusiasm for life (think about it)

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on August 05, 2011
at 05:42 PM

Good addendum Pierce. :)

Ffff513ac686cd18c840ee12c79357ed

(1183)

on August 05, 2011
at 05:22 PM

sounds like terrence needs a hug....

A6b2325aefabe3e40c89646e40223f6f

on August 05, 2011
at 05:03 AM

...as to whether the people who benefit from eating the big breakfasts are the types who are typically hungry in the morning. Or, to frame it the opposite way, whether there are any people whose bodies feel averse to eating breakfast, but who make themselves do it anyway, and find it to be beneficial. Thanks...

A6b2325aefabe3e40c89646e40223f6f

on August 05, 2011
at 05:01 AM

Good question and really interesting answers too. If I may tack on a sub-question: a lot of the answerers do seem to be in support of these rules, including #4 about protein-heavy breakfast. Personally, it when I wake up, the last thing in the world I want is to eat, and I am able to go well into the afternoon before getting hungry. So to the folks who are advocating the immediate protein-heavy breakfasts: do you typically wake up hungry, or at least amenable to eating? Or are you like me and you have to force yourself to eat in the morning (if you do at all)? I am just really curious...

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on August 05, 2011
at 02:09 AM

Play nicely... Thx! ;)

C471216c9fb4fcf886b7ac84a4046b49

(1371)

on August 05, 2011
at 01:17 AM

not necessarily but would advocating it have sold the book. 11-2hrs between dinner and breakfast and more people will follow the 'rules'

1f96ce108240f19345c05704c7709dad

(1061)

on August 05, 2011
at 01:14 AM

The statement "Not everything works for every person, and every person's body." is an ABSOLUTE. "EVERYTHING" and "EVERY" are absolute terms. Perhaps you MEANT to say "SOMETHINGS work for SOME people and NOT for others" - But I expect you were to busy flying a kite to write coherently.

Ffff513ac686cd18c840ee12c79357ed

(1183)

on August 05, 2011
at 12:58 AM

p.s. my post was not advice, it was my opinion. Big difference. I'm not trying to pass myself off as an expert attempting to sway people to follow my rules of leptin management.

Ffff513ac686cd18c840ee12c79357ed

(1183)

on August 05, 2011
at 12:54 AM

My post contains no absolutes. In fact, exactly the opposite. I proposed that not everything works for everybody. Huhn. Look. Pretty open ended there. I don't believe something said as profoundly as "Never eat after dinner" should be taken seriously. if you don't like my opinion, you can go fly a kite, too.

1f96ce108240f19345c05704c7709dad

(1061)

on August 04, 2011
at 10:07 PM

If you disapprove of advice that contains absolutes, why do you give advice that contains ABSOLUTES?

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12 Answers

3
26b7615ef542394102785a67a2786867

on August 04, 2011
at 08:09 PM

It sure makes sense to me, a skinny person who is oversensitive if anything to leptin (had problems for years with low appetite). I've had the best weight gain results doing almost the exact opposite (eating right before bed, eating giant meals and snacking, adequate carbs although I have limits because of blood sugar issues). :)

3
7d83ccd72dcdba9b8947598be6459e02

on August 04, 2011
at 07:45 PM

I've been following these guidelines for at least 8 years, and have found that I have great energy, don't crave food, and have been able to maintain a healthy weight. I find that Rule #4, eat a high protein breakfast (and enough food at breakfast), is essential for making it easy to follow the rest of the rules. And I definitely notice that if I eat too late or too much at dinner I feel more groggy the next morning. I think this is a great way of eating, not only as a diet, but for people who want to feel good and maintain a healthy weight too.

2
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 04, 2011
at 08:37 PM

I've been following these rules for about 6 weeks with the Quilt addition of eating bkft within 30 minutes of rising. I think it works to get rid of between meal hunger and I have plenty of energy. I've lost about ten pounds. After a few weeks it was much easier to follow #3 as I regained the "full" signal and I stopped eating excess at meals. I used to eat just two meals in a 11am-7pm window but I think after many months of that non-stop, it jacked my cortisol levels and tanked my energy. So this is much better for me.

2
66974b2cb291799dcd661b7dec99a9e2

(11121)

on August 04, 2011
at 08:28 PM

Yes I have been these rules inadvertently for years, although for #2 I tend to eat only 2 meals some days but never overly large meals. This is just how my eating has naturally evolved and it's what feels right and works for me.

I don't need to snack, I don't wolf my food down and I am LC to VLC.

2
6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on August 04, 2011
at 07:36 PM

I'm new to the Leptin experiment, and haven't read that book yet. I've just been roughly following some of the ideas on Dr. K's blog.

I haven't applied rule #3, I think it might not be necessary unless someone has satiety cue problems. If I don't have a big breakfast I can't stick to the other 4 rules, so that would bring the whole thing to a stop for me. And if I don't eat a sizable dinner I can't make it until bedtime without eating again (but I'm breastfeeding a toddler who is otherwise a dainty eater, so that might explain that). I've been plugging my numbers into fitday and have yet to top 2000 calories/day even with my big meals. Starting the first day, I felt best on 2 meals, and I'm at least moderately hormonally deranged since I have PCOS. Yesterday I had 3 slightly smaller meals, just because that was more convenient for me, but I felt better on 2 mondo meals the previous days. After the first 4 days I was able to zip up my jeans without sucking in as much, so I think there might be something to this.

I'm thinking rules 4 and 5 might be the most important, or at least the easiest place to start. The experiment continues.

2
F5698e16f1793c0bb00daea6a2e222a4

(678)

on August 04, 2011
at 07:29 PM

I already do everything suggested there but #3 - I do eat large meals. My daily caloric needs are pretty high, so eating 3 times a day means I have to eat big.

It's taken me a long time but I've finally gotten my diet squared away. If my hormones are messed up (and I think my cortisol/test may be off) it's due to stress.

1
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 04, 2011
at 08:15 PM

i think i follow many of these inadvertently, with a few caveats. i believe they're good principles, even if they're not absolutes. i also have no clue what leptin is, or if it's worth reading up on it too much, so how bout dem apples? Rule 1 goes beyond weight loss, or leptin or even being primal, it just makes me feel way better. Rule 2 generally seems to describe how i eat, but i'm not going to freak out if i feel like having a snack. Rule 3 i would modify... eat large meals if you want, but still stop before you're busting at the seams. my full signal absolutely takes 15 minutes to kick in, and only seems to do so after drinking fluids. Rule 4 is clutch, and if I had to ditch all others, i'd keep it along with Rule 1. Rule 5 is pretty much automatic if you're not eating grains, or following a regimen like sisson's primal blueprint (which i do).

1
62f89aa727cf3ce77c36651347cabc14

(884)

on August 04, 2011
at 08:05 PM

These guidelines seem to eschew intermittent fasting, but wants 12 hours between dinner/breakfast. Does IF have a negative affect on leptin sensitivity?

C471216c9fb4fcf886b7ac84a4046b49

(1371)

on August 05, 2011
at 01:17 AM

not necessarily but would advocating it have sold the book. 11-2hrs between dinner and breakfast and more people will follow the 'rules'

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 20, 2011
at 03:12 PM

IF doesn't seem to work as well for obese people who have screwed up hormones. Dr. Kruse talks about this in his blog as well. I tried IF for months and didn't lose a single pound. When I am no longer obese (bodyfat < 25% is my goal), I plan to start leangains style of IF. But for now, with BF ~28%, it won't work right.

0
852fded40f03950928e2b9243b7632d1

on July 24, 2013
at 12:24 PM

Been a Leptin 5 rules adherent for six months. Combined w/ tracking everything I eat on http://caloriecount.about.com/ I'm down 65 lbs, feel great, and am looking forard to losing the last 55 lbs over the next five months to 'deliver' me back to my HS weight of 45 yrs ago.

0
509fcc35b2461ffa3617d28b937cf2a7

on September 08, 2012
at 02:07 PM

To everyone that cannot follow these rules, you need to stick to them for at least a few days in order to adapt. So "Will" is the primary objective, at least for the first ten days, and especially the first 5 that resets your Leptin levels; this is crucial. Idealy, i did put socializing on pause for that time period so I could focus on what was happening and get myself into rhythm.

I have been on this model for the past three months, and I must admit that I am quite impressed. Indeed this method works, at least for me. I think it is of importance to really read the book in full. Beyond the rules, the reasons for these rules are very well explained and of common sense once you know the basics. If you read the book while starting the "diet", I dislike this word as I think o these rules as a way of life it will tremendously help as you understand the overall mechanisms your body faces on a daily basis.

I believe your worst enemy of this way of life is Drinking alcohol as it will rush your insuline patterns beyond control and get you starving for more sugar and junk food. I have done many diets, and have lost weight many times, Dukan was my favorite as I had lost 104 lbs on it in 7 months, however it is a frustration diet which at the end never works and gets you to get some weight back on my case and much more for others.i must admit that Dukan gives you a good base as far as knowing what are the good and light natural foods that are available out there. It's a good base.

Mastering Leptin however is great, and if you follow the rules most of the times, if not all the time, you will rarely feel hungry. The most I've been willing to eat at some point in between meals was about an hour before dinner; but then again isn't being hungry as we describe it a luxury in our civilized country. I think of it of a strong desire more than hunger. Besides if you realy don't eat processed sugar and avoid high glycemic index foods you'll be fine as you will not suffer from any snacking desires.

I feel amazingly energized, my weight is moving down naturally and safely, I do protein shakes in the morning with a whole fruit, same at lunch and then I eat a regular dinner. When socializing brings me to it, I have lunches once in a while. But remember that eating liquid keeps you full longer as water will not be evacuated as fast as if you eat solid and drink next to it.

Exercise at least three times a week, sleep and you'll be a new person. When following the rules correctly there is no way you won't be happy to have breakfast in the morning, I used to systematically skip breakfasts and have my first meal was around 1 pm, these days are over, and I am very thankfully to this book as i feal great. It gave me a great and strong understanding of the way I could have my body to work. And working, it does...

0
Ef9f83cb4e1826261a44c173f733789e

on August 04, 2011
at 07:26 PM

I like Byron Richards (I listen to his podcast), but this particular plan is mostly generic diet advice. Rule 5 is good, but the others are not really good or bad, imo.

-1
Ffff513ac686cd18c840ee12c79357ed

(1183)

on August 04, 2011
at 07:48 PM

I think any advice that contains absolutes is bad. Always and Nevers are a terrible way to live. It's failure in practice.

Not everything works for every person, and every person's body.

Go fly a kite, Byron J. Richards

Ffff513ac686cd18c840ee12c79357ed

(1183)

on August 05, 2011
at 12:58 AM

p.s. my post was not advice, it was my opinion. Big difference. I'm not trying to pass myself off as an expert attempting to sway people to follow my rules of leptin management.

1f96ce108240f19345c05704c7709dad

(1061)

on August 05, 2011
at 01:14 AM

The statement "Not everything works for every person, and every person's body." is an ABSOLUTE. "EVERYTHING" and "EVERY" are absolute terms. Perhaps you MEANT to say "SOMETHINGS work for SOME people and NOT for others" - But I expect you were to busy flying a kite to write coherently.

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on August 05, 2011
at 02:09 AM

Play nicely... Thx! ;)

1f96ce108240f19345c05704c7709dad

(1061)

on August 04, 2011
at 10:07 PM

If you disapprove of advice that contains absolutes, why do you give advice that contains ABSOLUTES?

Ffff513ac686cd18c840ee12c79357ed

(1183)

on August 05, 2011
at 12:54 AM

My post contains no absolutes. In fact, exactly the opposite. I proposed that not everything works for everybody. Huhn. Look. Pretty open ended there. I don't believe something said as profoundly as "Never eat after dinner" should be taken seriously. if you don't like my opinion, you can go fly a kite, too.

Ffff513ac686cd18c840ee12c79357ed

(1183)

on August 05, 2011
at 05:22 PM

sounds like terrence needs a hug....

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