8

votes

Master Tonic--Paleo Medicine?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created December 09, 2010 at 10:07 PM

Anyone ever tried the Master Tonic?

Master Tonic: Evidently this stuff could cure the plague. I'm seeing a lot of herbalists and WAPF people online using this, especially with winter here. I've heard plenty of anecdotal evidence from my local WAPF friends, but never tried it.

Anyone have any experience with it? Did it keep you well?

Ingredients

  • 1 part fresh chopped garlic cloves (antibacterial,antifungal,antiviral,antiparasitical)
  • 1 part fresh chopped white onions, or the hottest onions available (similar properties to garlic)
  • 1 part fresh grated ginger root (increases circulation to the extremities)
  • 1 part fresh grated horseradish root (increases blood flow to the head)
  • 1 part fresh chopped Cayenne peppers, Jalapenos, Serranos, Habeneros, African bird peppers....any combination of the hottest peppers available
  • Braggs Raw ACV

Shred all ingredients and put in jar, cover with ACV and let ferment for 14 days. Strain juice, bottle and save pulp for seasoning stocks and meat. Drink juice (1 oz per day).

A727956fa3f943057c4edb08ad9e864e

(4183)

on December 01, 2011
at 07:04 PM

Downvoted for ludicrousness. Patrik was reacting to the original claims, but now that the Q has been edited it does seem a little OTT :/

0a2dd50f2d3951bf3fb83fc4638c9512

(1960)

on October 03, 2011
at 12:30 AM

Sounds like a decent salad dressing.

1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f

(10904)

on May 28, 2011
at 04:13 PM

Ughhhh heartburn in a cup. I'll pass.

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on December 13, 2010
at 01:28 AM

There has been some, and i tried to point to it in my answer.

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on December 13, 2010
at 01:24 AM

Frankifries: no problems, I've linked to iffy stuff myself. That's the great thing about the web, edits propagate and it is rarely too late.

F53a74de3f8df19a114c5ac702af2b12

(826)

on December 13, 2010
at 01:06 AM

sheesh. I picked the third link that showed up in google search simply bc it wasnt a video or a pdf that wouldnt load.

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on December 12, 2010
at 10:43 PM

The further it got from the maker of the original formula, the bigger and more grandiose the claims about it became.

531db50c958cf4d5605ee0c5ae8a57be

(8878)

on December 12, 2010
at 06:36 PM

I take about a pound of chicken or turkey liver (though I suspect you could do the same with beef) and drop it into boiling water. I put on simmer and cover the pot. 20 minutes later, I remove the liver and drop in the food processor with a chopped onion about half a cup of melted butter and a splash of chardonnay. Pulse. Then I spoon the mixture into a pepper that I've gutted to remove the top and seeds. Bake in a Dutch oven or covered pot at 400 degrees for about 10 minutes. If dairy agrees with you, put some fresh mozzarella in there with the liver. Top with parmesan. Or go no-dairy.

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on December 12, 2010
at 06:16 PM

@ Patrik: I followed it back, did some more research, and then revised and updated my post at the top of my answer, without changing my original answer. Is that a good way to update style-wise for PaleoHacks?

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on December 12, 2010
at 01:50 PM

@patrik: I never followed the link, I just thought it was an underscored word, so I just looked at what was in the question. If I go look later today, i too may have something nasty to say about them, and a better understanding of why you were so irked.

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on December 12, 2010
at 05:10 AM

Butter sure does taste like a magical substance! ;-)

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on December 12, 2010
at 05:08 AM

Might have some things that many SAD diets or even kinda healthy diets tend to lack. If such is the case, then could be that it will help some people. But it irks me when it is marketed as some kinda magical elixir. Maybe what is has is potassium and magnesium or whatever. That's the kind of thing, I think, that we really should be looking at.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on December 11, 2010
at 09:38 PM

HIPPIE SNAKE OIL = "This tonic is extremely powerful...It’s power should not be underestimated. This formula is a modern day plague tonic and when added to an incurable routine it can cure the most chronic conditions and stubborn diseases. it stimulates maximum blood circulation, while putting the best detoxifying herbs into the blood. This formula is not just for the sniffles, it has helped to turn around the deadliest infections like some of the new mutated killer viruses that defy conventional antibiotics."

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on December 11, 2010
at 09:37 PM

@Adam -- you are letting the OP and the blog they link to off easy --- the ingredients they listed are by themselves great as food items -- but to conclude that in unison they have magical powers as a "tonic" is ludicrous.

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on December 11, 2010
at 03:37 PM

This sounds delicious. Can you point me at a longer recipe?

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on December 11, 2010
at 03:36 PM

I should kick in here that i think that this is probably a great general tonic. With paleo eating generally improving out health, this might be handy for making it even harder to fall I'll. But folks, if you really do get the plague and not some minor illness, please go see the medical practitioner of your choice... If you are really sick, seek medical help.

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on December 11, 2010
at 03:10 PM

@patrik: I, too, doubt that this stuff 'cures the plague', I took that to be a descriptor of general efficacy. When someone says that 'this is the bomb', they usually do not mean that it actually can explode, maybe more like this is the best or it is super effective. .... I do think that the master tonic MIGHT be a good general preventative, but that If you actually contract the plague, pneumonia, meningitis, or some other major medical mishap, then it it time to get away from the herbal support medicines and see a modern doctor. With paleo eating improving our general health, why not try it

B124653b19ee9dd438710a38954ed4a3

(1634)

on December 11, 2010
at 09:29 AM

This question could be turned to answer the more general question: Is there historical and medical evidence for the use of herbal medicines?

B124653b19ee9dd438710a38954ed4a3

(1634)

on December 11, 2010
at 09:29 AM

This question could be turned to answer the more general questions: Is there historical and medical evidence for the use of herbal medicines?

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on December 11, 2010
at 03:13 AM

@Frankifries -- you are right, no question is trivial is correct but it pre-supposes that we won't be asking about obvious snake-oil that "cures the plague". This question fails that pre-supposition.

34d0dfe6cb1a477bd2b5f984c2af29a9

(493)

on December 11, 2010
at 02:37 AM

Awesome. Great work.

F53a74de3f8df19a114c5ac702af2b12

(826)

on December 11, 2010
at 12:27 AM

OMG, Adam! Thank you 10,000 times! WoW, Im with Lisa, making a batch this weekend for me and my grandparents!!!

04293f705870e1837b8670d3c1cd5f67

(2261)

on December 10, 2010
at 10:07 PM

Wow, Thanks for that post with the all the info..I think I should make my mom drink this. She needs it!

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on December 10, 2010
at 10:01 PM

Not commonly used, but most of the ingredients listed have some medical effect. Thus, this must have some effect.

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on December 10, 2010
at 10:00 PM

Vinegar (acetic acid) is a great solvent for the bio-constituents listed above... yeah, it might ferment further breaking down the plant cell walls, but the effect might be more like a tincture/alcohol extraction.

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on December 10, 2010
at 09:10 PM

I am sure that this sort of question has a place at PaleoHacks... or that it should. Yes, there are iffy applications of herbal medicines, but here in Paleoland, ADAM thinks that *ancestrally speaking* that MEATS, NUTS, and VEGGIES were our food, and that herbs like (or somewhat like depending on climate and location) the ones listed above were our medicine.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on December 10, 2010
at 03:54 PM

its simply a mixture of raw ingredients, each of which individually prolly finds its way into our mouths regularly, why such an adverse response? The WAPF is a source of a lot of good info, and got me started on the very path that eventually brought me to paleo. at any rate i suspect consuming a concoction like this one is one of those actions that, if performed my someone on the SAD would be a cleanser/detoxer/whatever you wanna call it, but if eaten/drank by one of us whove been eating well for years would not really do anything.

F53a74de3f8df19a114c5ac702af2b12

(826)

on December 10, 2010
at 03:53 PM

Last comment. Ed, I think the reaction to Patrik is valid. In the faq's page he states that "no question is too trivial" and "questions can be related to supplements", so his reaction and threat to remove similar questions are unfair and shortsighted.

F53a74de3f8df19a114c5ac702af2b12

(826)

on December 10, 2010
at 03:43 PM

you might be on to something there :)

6426d61a13689f8f651164b10f121d64

(11488)

on December 10, 2010
at 03:32 PM

The reaction to Patrik's reaction strikes me as over-defensive. Besides, it's his site. To see that this concoction is arbitrary, and not based on efficacy, synergy or even flavor, one need only look to the ingredient ratios in the recipe: 1:1:1:1:1. Surely, in 60 years, if there was some clinical benefit, the formula would have been refined even a smidgen. No, wait, it's a perfect pentangle of goodness.

149af6e19a06675614dfbb6838a7d7c0

(3202)

on December 10, 2010
at 02:52 PM

He is incredibley passionate and dedicated. He convinced me to go vegetarian for 6 months till I started dreaming about Sushi. I admire the guy but the vegan stuff and herbal medicines didn't stop my Diabetes from coming on. If I had known this Paleo...high fat, moderate protein, low carb...Dr. Berntein, Dr. Rosedale stuff then I wouldn't be sticking a needle in my love handles 5x per day. I use Dr. Christopher and Dr. Schultze as add ons to keep away from the 95% of Pharm Meds that I might be tempted to think I needed without knowledge of the herbal alternatives...the ones that work I mean.

F53a74de3f8df19a114c5ac702af2b12

(826)

on December 10, 2010
at 01:53 PM

I agree with Shebeeste in their assessment of Patrik's kneejerk response. I was a bit dissapointed that the admin would write off a legitimate question like this so quickly and w/o consideration. Not a good look! The paleo community does not have tunnel vision.

F53a74de3f8df19a114c5ac702af2b12

(826)

on December 10, 2010
at 01:48 PM

Nice, Schultze studied under the originator of the master tonic. That must have been a wonderful experience!

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on December 10, 2010
at 06:55 AM

One easy trap to fall into is that paleo man didn't get sick. Whether he got food poisoning, cancer, or was just feeling bad, I'm sure that knowledge of helpful plants/animals evolved over the years. Whether those treatments can help modern disease significantly better than placebo...that's very condition specific.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on December 10, 2010
at 06:27 AM

Even with a sister who is a practicing naturopath and herbalist, I still think most of this stuff is quite overblown. But there hasn't been enough quality research until the past 10 years, and the efficacy of certain plants for acute and chronic disease seems like a good paleo question to me. We're not talking crystals and homeopathy...there is biological plausability for many plant-based substances (aren't like 1/3rd of pharmaceuticals originally plant-derived?). A review of clinicaltrials.gov or the NCCAM database would be worthwhile. Good luck!

D738a5b2a67f3c36518a2ac9f32d27af

(821)

on December 10, 2010
at 05:10 AM

Huh. Frankifries wasn't saying it was all those things, just giving context by linking to a site. Can't we ignore the woowoo hyperbole there, and address his question, which seems to be whether this combination of ingredients aids wellness? We talk about vitamins on here all the time. Can't we talk about herbs? Or at least suggest how he might be able to reframe the question? I'm really rather put off by your reaction. It's very unprofessional to say "are you kidding me". Seriously. A nice dry--"I don't think this is an appropriate topic" would do nicely. Cheers

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on December 10, 2010
at 04:53 AM

@paleonyc --- yes, agreed.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on December 10, 2010
at 04:52 AM

"This formula is a modern day plague tonic and when added to an incurable routine it can cure the most chronic conditions and stubborn diseases. it stimulates maximum blood circulation, while putting the best detoxifying herbs into the blood" --- pretty much says it all. It is hippie snake-oil and next time I see a post like this -- I am deleting it.

D738a5b2a67f3c36518a2ac9f32d27af

(821)

on December 10, 2010
at 03:39 AM

Rather than be snarky about the question, someone should check for studies to see if any of the ingredients have been proven to have immune-boosting properties. Anectodally, I've taken garlic, ginger and cayenne (and vitamin C), and they seemed to make colds go away faster. Now, however, I just don't get colds.

F53a74de3f8df19a114c5ac702af2b12

(826)

on December 10, 2010
at 02:07 AM

Yes Im serious! From a paleo perspective it would make sense to have herbs/foods that have a medicinal use. Even our great grandparents made their own salves and tinctures. Theres a board over at CavemanPower and plenty of reading online on the Master Tonic and other tinctures like it. I dont know about you Patrik, but I do paleo for health and that includes prevention by natural methods

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on December 10, 2010
at 12:54 AM

Are you kidding me? Seriously?

F53a74de3f8df19a114c5ac702af2b12

(826)

on December 09, 2010
at 11:23 PM

FWIW, its not new, its been around for at least 60 years. My grandmother said they used to something similar when she was a teenager.

F53a74de3f8df19a114c5ac702af2b12

(826)

on December 09, 2010
at 11:22 PM

Why? Can you enlighten me?

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13 Answers

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14
B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

on December 10, 2010
at 09:54 PM

UPDATE: Wow. Now that I followed the link back, I have to agree with Patrik and others.. their claims at that website are too dramatic and overblown. Also a little disturbing is the fact that the linked website talking about the 'Master Tonic' has the whole 'Master Race' vibe and reeks of white supremacy. This creeps me out and disturbs me.

Interesting. When I follow the recipe back upstream in the web to https://www.herbdoc.com/, the website of the originator of this tonic(Dr. Richard Schulze, as referenced in the link above), he does not call it the 'Master Tonic' he describes it and sells it as 'SuperTonic'... I have to wonder at what point in the copy and forward game that is part of the Internet did it get renamed.

At his website, Schulze makes only three claims:

  • KILLS harmful micro-organisms on contact, especially during winter
    months
  • NATURALLY supports clear and open sinuses and lungs
  • STARTS working immediately

Herbal Ingredients: Fresh Habanero Pepper, Garlic Bulb, White Onion, Hawaiian Yellow Ginger Root, Horseradish Root (what liquid/solvent it is suspended in is not listed)

That is MUCH saner for claims of efficacy. Don't you think?


Original ANSWER: YES. This mix would have some beneficial effect.

I may need to make a batch for fun and health.

When I'm not sure if a medical idea has any heft to it, I turn to PUBMED and see what a quick search reveals.

  1. fresh chopped garlic cloves (antibacterial,antifungal,antiviral,antiparasitical) 3422 results - including papers that support all of the above listed effects

  2. fresh chopped white onions, or the hottest onions available (similar properties to garlic) 1548 results - including papers that support all of the above listed effects

  3. fresh grated ginger root (increases circulation to the extremities) 1290 results - including papers that support all of the above listed effects, also strongly proved to be gastroprotective and a strong anti-nausea drug than modern ones.

  4. fresh grated horseradish root (increases blood flow to the head) 22438 results - but many of these have to do with Horseradish Peroxidase being used as a biomarker.... ummm, wow. I did not know about this medical effect, but here is one that is interesting :::: Osmotic opening of the blood-brain barrier. Rapoport SI. Ciba Found Symp. 1978 Mar;(56):237-55.PMID: 97064

  5. fresh chopped Cayenne peppers, Jalapenos, Serranos, Habeneros, African bird peppers....any combination of the hottest peppers available ::: OK, this has to be about capsaicin so I searched on that. 10193 results - including papers that support asthma cures, pain relief, and immunostimulatory results

  6. Braggs Raw ACV (heh, this one I take now) 60433 results - including the medical benefits of acetic acid

Here is my quick favorite for Apple Cider Vinegar have a beneficial effect.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19630216

Pak J Biol Sci. 2008 Dec 1;11(23):2634-8. Apple cider vinegar attenuates lipid profile in normal and diabetic rats.

Abstract

In this study, the effect of apple cider vinegar on Fasting Blood Glucose (FBG), glycated haemoglobin (HbA1c) and lipid profile in normal and diabetic rats was investigated. Diabetes was induced in male Wistar rats (300+/-30 g) by the intraperitoneal injection of streptozotocin (60 mg kg(-1) of body weight). Both normal and diabetic animals were fed with standard animal food containing apple cider vinegar (6% w/w) for 4 weeks. Fasting blood glucose did not change, while HbA1c significantly decreased by apple cider vinegar in diabetic group (p<0.05). In normal rats fed with vinegar, significant reduction of low density lipoprotein-cholesterol (LDL-c) (p<0.005) and significant increase of high density lipoprotein-cholesterol (HDL-c) levels (p<0.005) were observed. Apple cider vinegar also reduced serum triglyceride (TG) levels (p<0.005) and increased HDL-c (p<0.005) in diabetic animals. These results indicate that apple cider vinegar improved the serum lipid profile in normal and diabetic rats by decreasing serum TG, LDL-c and increasing serum HDL-c and may be of great value in managing the diabetic complications.

PMID: 19630216 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

In addition, it should be noted that vinegar acetic acid (ethanoic acid) is a great solvent for the bio-constituents listed above.

ALSO SEE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinegar#Medical_uses

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on December 11, 2010
at 03:36 PM

I should kick in here that i think that this is probably a great general tonic. With paleo eating generally improving out health, this might be handy for making it even harder to fall I'll. But folks, if you really do get the plague and not some minor illness, please go see the medical practitioner of your choice... If you are really sick, seek medical help.

04293f705870e1837b8670d3c1cd5f67

(2261)

on December 10, 2010
at 10:07 PM

Wow, Thanks for that post with the all the info..I think I should make my mom drink this. She needs it!

F53a74de3f8df19a114c5ac702af2b12

(826)

on December 11, 2010
at 12:27 AM

OMG, Adam! Thank you 10,000 times! WoW, Im with Lisa, making a batch this weekend for me and my grandparents!!!

34d0dfe6cb1a477bd2b5f984c2af29a9

(493)

on December 11, 2010
at 02:37 AM

Awesome. Great work.

4
531db50c958cf4d5605ee0c5ae8a57be

on December 10, 2010
at 02:56 PM

I prefer the tonic of liver, blended with onion, butter, and chardonnay, stuffed inside a big poblano pepper. Clears the sinuses and provides a solid dose of vitamins. And it's delicious!

531db50c958cf4d5605ee0c5ae8a57be

(8878)

on December 12, 2010
at 06:36 PM

I take about a pound of chicken or turkey liver (though I suspect you could do the same with beef) and drop it into boiling water. I put on simmer and cover the pot. 20 minutes later, I remove the liver and drop in the food processor with a chopped onion about half a cup of melted butter and a splash of chardonnay. Pulse. Then I spoon the mixture into a pepper that I've gutted to remove the top and seeds. Bake in a Dutch oven or covered pot at 400 degrees for about 10 minutes. If dairy agrees with you, put some fresh mozzarella in there with the liver. Top with parmesan. Or go no-dairy.

F53a74de3f8df19a114c5ac702af2b12

(826)

on December 10, 2010
at 03:43 PM

you might be on to something there :)

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on December 11, 2010
at 03:37 PM

This sounds delicious. Can you point me at a longer recipe?

3
0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on December 12, 2010
at 02:45 PM

Is it only me or does this look rather like the recipe for an Indian curry? Apart from the vinegar.

My only worry with it is that after it is filtered you mostly have neat vinegar left. The acidity of vinegar is enough to damage the lining of your throat if regularly taken undiluted and garggled first as the recipe advises.

Other than that it's probably harmless enough. I guess your breath might be strong enough to keep people at a distance and so avoiding catching germs.

Some of the statements going along with the recipe are typical of this kind of cure-all. I feel Patrik's pain :)

This formula is not just for the sniffles, it has helped to turn around the deadliest infections like some of the new mutated killer viruses that defy conventional antibiotics."

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on December 12, 2010
at 10:43 PM

The further it got from the maker of the original formula, the bigger and more grandiose the claims about it became.

3
21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on December 10, 2010
at 06:35 AM

Semi-related FYI- there are a few natural things that have proven efficacy in slightly shortening the duration of rhinovirus (common cold). Obviously, oral/nasal zinc. But also, umckasides (advocated by Dr. Eades) and elderberry, and a couple other things as well. That being said, I try to review a cross-section of randomized trials of alternative medicines a couple times a year, and most of the evidence is for intermediate biomarkers, not health outcomes. In addition, trial quality from studies in the 1990's and before is very poor.

I am very interested to see if anyone (Guyenet? Sisson? Harris? Cordain?) will write a post speculating on the role of natural medicines in paleo times. Obviously we can't know for sure, but I wonder if some medicine wasn't needed as often because of lack of chronic disease (big duh), but acute poultice-type thingies were made for acute disease/cuts/bruises/etc. Biodiversity and awareness of local foliage was likely way way way higher at the time.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on December 10, 2010
at 06:55 AM

One easy trap to fall into is that paleo man didn't get sick. Whether he got food poisoning, cancer, or was just feeling bad, I'm sure that knowledge of helpful plants/animals evolved over the years. Whether those treatments can help modern disease significantly better than placebo...that's very condition specific.

3
149af6e19a06675614dfbb6838a7d7c0

on December 10, 2010
at 02:53 AM

Herbal Tonics, plants and medicine surely have been used for a long, long time. There is no Paleo Physicians Desk Reference that I've seen so we are on our own. However check out Dr. Richard Schultze at www.herbdoc.com. I studied herbs with him. He is a true believer an avid P.E.T.A. supporter, Vegan and a good guy. His web sells product but it is the best there is and he has loads of free info on the process and herbal in general. When I make my own herbal stuff, I follow his direction as I studied under him. This Master Tonic is supposed to stimulate your immune system etc. If you believe it will work its got a better chance. I have seen figure of 1/3 to 45% of pharmy meds come from plants. Some do work strongly...others not so much. Point being, we in this community should learn a little herbal medicine so that you are not beholdin to your pharmy Doc who will give you pills and snub your paleo diet. It is all part of the bigger Paleo picture. This was all part of my pre-Paleo past. There are many useful tool and plants that can be employed in healing and health and should be ued by us all. Even if the tonic doen't cure the plague, it makes a killer hot sauce on some grass fed ribs while you are waiting for them to "bring out your dead".

F53a74de3f8df19a114c5ac702af2b12

(826)

on December 10, 2010
at 01:48 PM

Nice, Schultze studied under the originator of the master tonic. That must have been a wonderful experience!

149af6e19a06675614dfbb6838a7d7c0

(3202)

on December 10, 2010
at 02:52 PM

He is incredibley passionate and dedicated. He convinced me to go vegetarian for 6 months till I started dreaming about Sushi. I admire the guy but the vegan stuff and herbal medicines didn't stop my Diabetes from coming on. If I had known this Paleo...high fat, moderate protein, low carb...Dr. Berntein, Dr. Rosedale stuff then I wouldn't be sticking a needle in my love handles 5x per day. I use Dr. Christopher and Dr. Schultze as add ons to keep away from the 95% of Pharm Meds that I might be tempted to think I needed without knowledge of the herbal alternatives...the ones that work I mean.

2
349fa5f00e90c081564503964582ba27

on May 28, 2011
at 05:08 AM

I have made this tonic and taken it for years...my daughter came down with the swine flu and it kicked it in 24 hrs after I gave her 3 doses spread out over a day. The reason you soak the ingredients for 2 weeks is to get all the goodness from the ingredients sort of melded into the apple cider vinegar. Once strained I place in glass jars and use when needed. It has a forever shelf life because of the bacteria and virus killing properties of the ingredients. To another poster that said just whip up a broth and drink it, it would not be as powerful as the tonic that has marinated for 2 weeks and won't have as good as an effect. I am telling you first hand it has cured many illnesses in my family and I won't be without it.

2
E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on December 10, 2010
at 08:36 AM

I've never heard of this before, but if I have a cold that I want to shift then I'll definitely eat lots of garlic and spices (especially hot ones). Any-one who's ever encountered these foods knows that they pretty dramatically reduce congestion, increase circulation, numb pain etc, so all that seems pretty uncontroversial.

Before getting into paleo, if I was getting sick I'd also eat lots of the above as close to raw as bearable for their pro-immune, anti-bacterial, anti-viral etc properties, which have been reasonably well established. Now, though I don't doubt the claims that they are anti-bacterial and so forth, I'm a little more sceptical that eating them can have a specific enough effect on, for example, an infection in head. More likely that these properties would mostly be felt in the digestive tract, which probably has its advantages, but I've no idea whether this extends further significantly. I'm also generally more sceptical of consuming large amounts of supposedly healthy plant compounds, which before I generally assumed was bound to be a good thing (as CW asserts). Rather more plausible, is using very strong doses of plants as a medicine, as in this case.

I don't pay too much attention to the rhetoric, sometimes the WAPF make butter sound like a magical substance.

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on December 12, 2010
at 05:10 AM

Butter sure does taste like a magical substance! ;-)

2
50637dfd7dc7a7e811d82283f4f5fd10

(5838)

on December 10, 2010
at 03:24 AM

I think that there is a place for something like this in the paleo sphere. Like Eva said, we eat most of that stuff anyways, what if there truly is a synergystic effect that adds extra benefit.? Definitely possible.

With that said, anything that claims to be a magic cure all, silver bullet type thing usually is not. I personally wouldn't put too much stock in the claim, but I might try to make a batch out of curiousity. Why not? looks like it could make a good salsa substitute..

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on December 12, 2010
at 05:08 AM

Might have some things that many SAD diets or even kinda healthy diets tend to lack. If such is the case, then could be that it will help some people. But it irks me when it is marketed as some kinda magical elixir. Maybe what is has is potassium and magnesium or whatever. That's the kind of thing, I think, that we really should be looking at.

2
Aa1d5fbb9d8051538161c9a03afd384e

on December 10, 2010
at 12:48 AM

I think, we (the paleo community) should not forget all the nutrional parameters we all follow are supported by rigorous scientific studies involving evolutive medicine. On the flip side, I don't know if there will be any serious study on this matter...

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on December 13, 2010
at 01:28 AM

There has been some, and i tried to point to it in my answer.

2
62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on December 09, 2010
at 10:36 PM

I eat most of that stuff already. Not sure why it would make a big difference all squished together at the same time vs separately, unless the fermnentation helps with a probiotic effect. However, I suspect results of most of these kinds of things are from placebo effect. Anyway, at minimum, as long as there is nothing harmful in there, shouldn't hurt to try it. I am just wary as every week there is some new magic elixer that everyone swears by, some kind of concoction backed by very little scientific evidence. People take it for a while and it's all the rage and everyone swears by it. And then a few months or a year later, something else comes into vogue instead. I'd rather wait around and see what makes it past the long haul before jumping in with both feet.

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on December 10, 2010
at 10:00 PM

Vinegar (acetic acid) is a great solvent for the bio-constituents listed above... yeah, it might ferment further breaking down the plant cell walls, but the effect might be more like a tincture/alcohol extraction.

F53a74de3f8df19a114c5ac702af2b12

(826)

on December 09, 2010
at 11:23 PM

FWIW, its not new, its been around for at least 60 years. My grandmother said they used to something similar when she was a teenager.

1
61852721b5ff3613f56f043fe890a679

(1172)

on December 09, 2010
at 10:35 PM

Crap and wonkery. Avoid.

F53a74de3f8df19a114c5ac702af2b12

(826)

on December 09, 2010
at 11:22 PM

Why? Can you enlighten me?

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on December 10, 2010
at 04:53 AM

@paleonyc --- yes, agreed.

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on December 10, 2010
at 10:01 PM

Not commonly used, but most of the ingredients listed have some medical effect. Thus, this must have some effect.

0
1aeb2cfacf9bc03644bcda640ce459ba

(154)

on December 13, 2010
at 03:59 AM

I wonder about the ACV. I think maybe just turning them to paste in your processor or juicer or whatever and then just mixing w water and throwing it all across the tongue like a shot would be better. I use these ingredients in broth when I get the occasional cold so what the heck....If i consumed it in this fashion, I'd get more doses.

-1
0a6818be3118436ebd572c7951f950dc

on December 01, 2011
at 06:33 PM

Strange the moderator has such a strong response against this topic even with the additional information Adam suggested.

It makes me wonder what background Patrick may have or what stock he may own? Pharmaceuticals?

A727956fa3f943057c4edb08ad9e864e

(4183)

on December 01, 2011
at 07:04 PM

Downvoted for ludicrousness. Patrik was reacting to the original claims, but now that the Q has been edited it does seem a little OTT :/

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