2

votes

Is it possible to lean up with high calorie breakfasts?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created April 10, 2012 at 2:58 PM

Gender: Male Height: 6'1" Weight: 205 lbs. Workouts: 3-4 per week that include push ups, pull ups and kettle bell routines with 24kg and 16kg bells. I also play basketball 1-2 times per week, full court

GOAL: To see my abs for the first time.

My breakfast this morning consisted of 4 eggs scrambled with a small amount of cheddar cheese, 6 strips of pork bacon fried, some raw broccoli and cauliflower dipped in homemade garlic sauce, 1 slice of Dempster's Ancient grain bread with a small amount of butter and water to drink.

Is this too large of a breakfast? Since the goal is to lean and see abs, should I be counting calories more closely?

I generally eat 3-4 meals per day, but breakfast is my largest by far! If I can only get 3 in one day, then I usually have snacks of mixed nuts or cottage cheese or a piece of fruit. Aside from fruit, I do not eat any white flour or sugar and my last meal of the day is always carb free just raw veggies and meat.

Thanks for any help!

246ebf68e35743f62e5e187891b9cba0

(21420)

on April 11, 2012
at 04:51 PM

@ foreveryoung - I assure you, in the absence of refined grain carbohydrates, eggs will *not* cause weight gain. They are calories, sourced from protein and fat. I don't see a logical reason why an extra 70 calories a day from protein+fat would be the deciding factor between "abs" and "no abs" in the absence of non-paleo food items. I can, however, see that in a even the most benign amounts of grain-based foods - as insulin and inflammation seem to be the primary causes of fat gain (barring hormonal/pituitary issues). Your bulking phase in highschool doesn't really count because of this point.

Ebb10603524dd22621c1155dd7ddf106

(19150)

on April 11, 2012
at 12:19 AM

@foreveryoung oh, totally agree. I tend to have the bulk of my dense carbs at supper time.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 10, 2012
at 09:52 PM

If they don't front load their carbs, then they target them (i.e. eat them around workouts)

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 10, 2012
at 09:51 PM

and most people I know that are successful do well with a high protein diet at all meals, and front loading their carbs. Having a high protein breakfast doesn't mean having an only protein breakfast.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 10, 2012
at 09:49 PM

Because it is satiating does not make it a good argument for getting lean. Protein is the most satiating macronutrient, but to exercise at a high level of intensity to really dramatically reduce body fat and improve metabolic health and insulin sensitivity, then he'll likely need some glucose to fuel some grueling workouts. Last time I checked Mark Berkhan (leangains) eats his fair share of carbs. I really have a hard time thinking of a person who doesn't eat carbs and is lean.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 10, 2012
at 09:43 PM

@ MadeWade- if you want to keep it 100% paleo and lean up with a decent breakfast, try having 2 eggs with a side of avocado and blueberries. IF you can, scramble your eggs with something green like spinach or kale. That is 100% paleo according to most descriptions, and that breakfast gives you everything you need and nothing you don't (i.e. grains and butter). I think that is the key to leaning up is just keeping the essentials and getting rid of any non-essentials. Bread and butter? probably non essential.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 10, 2012
at 09:28 PM

@ Joshua- and Josh, I'm not trying to rip on your advice. I think eggs are a great source of protein and fat, but in strict moderation if he wants to see his abs "for the first time." I wouldn't recommend more than 3-4 in a sitting for anyone, lean or not. In high school when I was trying desperately to build size, I would eat up to half dozen a day, in two separate sittings. MOst days I'd just eat 1-3 though. OH, and I would eat those in the morning with a side of oats and in the afternoon with a side of oats before I would workout.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 10, 2012
at 09:20 PM

@ MadeWade. A slice of bread at breakfast may even aid in your results, just so long as it is SPROUTED GRAIN. Go find Ezkeiel Low Sodium bread if you can. Also, if you really want to see your abs reduce the yolks to 1-2 and replace the extra calories with egg whites. Definitely drop the butter. You need to be working out wiht a very high intensity as well. The fastest way to get there is a traditional bodybuilding split routine as well as a mix of LISS and HIIT cardio. Cycle your carbs, don't eliminate them all together.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 10, 2012
at 09:13 PM

@ Joshua- I know a lot of people who eat sprouted grain bread and look fantastic and function at a high level. Your assumption that bread is "no good for anybody, and any body," although a nice little quip, is just not true. Does Gregg Avedon look unhealthy and fat to you? What about Max Wettstein, Jamie Eason, Alex Santaniello, or Rob Riches? Every one of these people eat sprouted grain bread. They are successful people who have great health.

76c885d7d27e6c83542ea493ca866dcd

(2178)

on April 10, 2012
at 06:36 PM

aaand what is this "homemade garlic sauce" of which you speak?? i could be into that!

1ef4ef8ffcbf5db32810c017287c5498

(10)

on April 10, 2012
at 06:13 PM

Well, I'm not opposed to eliminating that one slice of bread. Again, my goal is to lean and reduce body fat %. Is that one slice really going to hold me back? My body type is somewhere between meso and endo.

246ebf68e35743f62e5e187891b9cba0

(21420)

on April 10, 2012
at 03:58 PM

Well, there are as many definitions of Paleo as their are people that eat Paleo - that being said, grains = not paleo, legumes = not paleo, refined sugar = not paleo. The slow digesting carb thing is really geared towards folks that are not eating paleo. Plus, fat+protein tends to keep me satiated much longer than oats or any other "slow digesting carbs".

1ef4ef8ffcbf5db32810c017287c5498

(10)

on April 10, 2012
at 03:52 PM

I've also been told that eating a slow digesting carb with equal part protein in the morning is a good strategy. I guess it's just not true "Paleo"?

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2 Answers

3
246ebf68e35743f62e5e187891b9cba0

(21420)

on April 10, 2012
at 03:41 PM

Frankly I lean up faster with a big breakfast, as it helps me control my appetite throughout the day. If I'm having a stall while rotating through my fasting, one-meal-a-day experiments, my resolution is to go "back to basics" which is to consume about half of my daily calories for breakfast (about 1000kcal), then eat the other half split fairly even between lunch and dinner... for which I also advocate lower carbs.

Now personally, I wouldn't advocate your breakfast (bread) for leaning up - instead of bread you could try something that isn't a grain. It doesn't have to be low carb (although this does help me personally to control binges and crashes), but bread is no good for anybody, and any body.

I would suggest something as follows (if you prefer/respond better to carbs):
Low carb, higher calorie breakfast (your same breakfast without the bread, add an extra egg or a couple large strawberries).
Medium/Moderate carb, medium/moderate calorie lunch (salad, meat, and a sweet potato).
Low carb, medium/moderate calorie dinner (meat and veggies).

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 10, 2012
at 09:28 PM

@ Joshua- and Josh, I'm not trying to rip on your advice. I think eggs are a great source of protein and fat, but in strict moderation if he wants to see his abs "for the first time." I wouldn't recommend more than 3-4 in a sitting for anyone, lean or not. In high school when I was trying desperately to build size, I would eat up to half dozen a day, in two separate sittings. MOst days I'd just eat 1-3 though. OH, and I would eat those in the morning with a side of oats and in the afternoon with a side of oats before I would workout.

1ef4ef8ffcbf5db32810c017287c5498

(10)

on April 10, 2012
at 03:52 PM

I've also been told that eating a slow digesting carb with equal part protein in the morning is a good strategy. I guess it's just not true "Paleo"?

1ef4ef8ffcbf5db32810c017287c5498

(10)

on April 10, 2012
at 06:13 PM

Well, I'm not opposed to eliminating that one slice of bread. Again, my goal is to lean and reduce body fat %. Is that one slice really going to hold me back? My body type is somewhere between meso and endo.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 10, 2012
at 09:20 PM

@ MadeWade. A slice of bread at breakfast may even aid in your results, just so long as it is SPROUTED GRAIN. Go find Ezkeiel Low Sodium bread if you can. Also, if you really want to see your abs reduce the yolks to 1-2 and replace the extra calories with egg whites. Definitely drop the butter. You need to be working out wiht a very high intensity as well. The fastest way to get there is a traditional bodybuilding split routine as well as a mix of LISS and HIIT cardio. Cycle your carbs, don't eliminate them all together.

246ebf68e35743f62e5e187891b9cba0

(21420)

on April 10, 2012
at 03:58 PM

Well, there are as many definitions of Paleo as their are people that eat Paleo - that being said, grains = not paleo, legumes = not paleo, refined sugar = not paleo. The slow digesting carb thing is really geared towards folks that are not eating paleo. Plus, fat+protein tends to keep me satiated much longer than oats or any other "slow digesting carbs".

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 10, 2012
at 09:43 PM

@ MadeWade- if you want to keep it 100% paleo and lean up with a decent breakfast, try having 2 eggs with a side of avocado and blueberries. IF you can, scramble your eggs with something green like spinach or kale. That is 100% paleo according to most descriptions, and that breakfast gives you everything you need and nothing you don't (i.e. grains and butter). I think that is the key to leaning up is just keeping the essentials and getting rid of any non-essentials. Bread and butter? probably non essential.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 10, 2012
at 09:13 PM

@ Joshua- I know a lot of people who eat sprouted grain bread and look fantastic and function at a high level. Your assumption that bread is "no good for anybody, and any body," although a nice little quip, is just not true. Does Gregg Avedon look unhealthy and fat to you? What about Max Wettstein, Jamie Eason, Alex Santaniello, or Rob Riches? Every one of these people eat sprouted grain bread. They are successful people who have great health.

246ebf68e35743f62e5e187891b9cba0

(21420)

on April 11, 2012
at 04:51 PM

@ foreveryoung - I assure you, in the absence of refined grain carbohydrates, eggs will *not* cause weight gain. They are calories, sourced from protein and fat. I don't see a logical reason why an extra 70 calories a day from protein+fat would be the deciding factor between "abs" and "no abs" in the absence of non-paleo food items. I can, however, see that in a even the most benign amounts of grain-based foods - as insulin and inflammation seem to be the primary causes of fat gain (barring hormonal/pituitary issues). Your bulking phase in highschool doesn't really count because of this point.

1
Ebb10603524dd22621c1155dd7ddf106

(19150)

on April 10, 2012
at 03:55 PM

I do not have food in the mornings, and my breakfast is around noon. I easily take in 2/5 to 1/2 of my daily calories in my first meal. I've been doing this for about 4 weeks, and I've finally started to inch past my personal weight plateau.

I'm definitely pro-big-breakfast. I also do a leangains inspired 16/8 IF.

Regardless of your opinions on fasting, most people do do well with high-protein, low carb first-meals-of-the-day. Every so often I meet someone that does well (i.e. is somewhat fit and healthy) with a heavier supper, but they tend to be rarer.

It's up to you, but honestly, I'd ditch the ancient grain bread. That's easily another egg, some bacon, or a bit of avocado you could be eating instead -- much more satiating!

Ebb10603524dd22621c1155dd7ddf106

(19150)

on April 11, 2012
at 12:19 AM

@foreveryoung oh, totally agree. I tend to have the bulk of my dense carbs at supper time.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 10, 2012
at 09:51 PM

and most people I know that are successful do well with a high protein diet at all meals, and front loading their carbs. Having a high protein breakfast doesn't mean having an only protein breakfast.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 10, 2012
at 09:52 PM

If they don't front load their carbs, then they target them (i.e. eat them around workouts)

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 10, 2012
at 09:49 PM

Because it is satiating does not make it a good argument for getting lean. Protein is the most satiating macronutrient, but to exercise at a high level of intensity to really dramatically reduce body fat and improve metabolic health and insulin sensitivity, then he'll likely need some glucose to fuel some grueling workouts. Last time I checked Mark Berkhan (leangains) eats his fair share of carbs. I really have a hard time thinking of a person who doesn't eat carbs and is lean.

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