4

votes

HACKING BONE DENSITY

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created September 11, 2011 at 4:12 PM

What is the consensus on improving bone density and preventing leaching of calcium and other minerals from a paleo standpoint?

What are the minerals that bone is comprised of?

How important is magnesium?

There is also a hot supplement of elemental Strontium that is said to increase bone creation.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on September 19, 2011
at 08:16 PM

http://www.stonehearthnewsletters.com/how-exercise-at-the-cellular-level-drives-health-brand-new-study/exercise/ Interesting stuff on bones and exercise.

26b7615ef542394102785a67a2786867

(7967)

on September 12, 2011
at 05:55 PM

This is why I get so upset when women attempting to eat paleo lose their menstrual cycle! Our bodies are meant to be fertile, if we are not it means something is very wrong, and that has various repercussions on our short and long-term health... Also, zincealotry, haha.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on September 12, 2011
at 05:27 PM

Exactly. Calcium has been quite overemphasized, as it can't really be incorporated without the other factors, and without the weight-bearing stimulus.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on September 12, 2011
at 03:37 PM

Some say that estrogen promotes the tearing down of bone while progesterone the building back up. As we know, both a crucial for healthy bone.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on September 12, 2011
at 02:43 PM

K2 specifically mk-4 (not MK-7) was what weston A Price called activator X. http://www.westonaprice.org/fat-soluble-activators/x-factor-is-vitamin-k2 http://www.westonaprice.org/fat-soluble-activators/x-factor-is-vitamin-k2 http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/06/activator-x.html

6e24575aafccf63e02172715b3cd60ef

(6)

on September 12, 2011
at 08:26 AM

Just vitamins k? Or more specifically K2 from eggs/liver/butter?

33907fee54e98865a1988e5eef59147e

(480)

on September 12, 2011
at 01:40 AM

this is great meredith, thanks

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on September 12, 2011
at 12:18 AM

On my FB group we have a whole library of this - friend me and have at it.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on September 12, 2011
at 12:14 AM

There may be typos!

76f3ead3aa977d876bcf3331d35a36e9

(4620)

on September 12, 2011
at 12:02 AM

Ron is the man. Your note taking makes the world a better place, Meredith.

2c8c421cf0e0c462654c7dc37f8b9711

(2729)

on September 11, 2011
at 11:58 PM

this is awesome, Meredith! Thanks so much!

36b7a2776d028dc8d5743e2e56ece34d

(812)

on September 11, 2011
at 11:55 PM

vertebrates started out in the ocean.....

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on September 11, 2011
at 06:33 PM

strontium is found in underground foods and HG's have higher levels of strontium in there bones.

6426d61a13689f8f651164b10f121d64

(11488)

on September 11, 2011
at 05:56 PM

Strontium? -- Nah. The hottest new supplement is elemental plutonium.

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4 Answers

11
0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on September 11, 2011
at 07:07 PM

Listen to Dr. Ron Rosedale talk about bones - it is very interesting. Calcium makes bones rigid, protein and collagen matrix makes them strong and pliable.

EDIT:

I listened to this interview and took notes:

Our shells are not on the outside, they are inside - bone. The ability to make bone coincides with the evolution of the hormone leptin.

Early life was in water so it did not need rigidity because gravity did not act on it. When we went from ocean to land, we encountered gravity.

Bigness affords protection. For animals to grow on land they had to become more rigid.
Rigidity and strength are very different.

Internalizing our external shell allowed us greater rigidity so we could grow larger against gravity. Bone is very different from shell, though. Bones have to be strong and flexible.

Bones are more alive than shells. The alive part imparts strength. Osteoclasts and osteoblasts are cells that eat and rebuild bone to keep it young if it is working properly. These are living architects to model and remodel our bones.

Osteoblasts make bone by putting down protein not calcium. Osteoblasts are the architect and the protein is the clay. We approach osteoporosis incorrectly, the calcium causes rigid but brittle bone, the protein makes it strong and flexible like a green limb - like a fly rod bending and flexing. The rod would crack in half if it weren't hollow.

Fracture under pressure can be caused by a bone with more calcium than protein in the bone.

Bone density scans measure calcium not protein content - calcium content does not reflect bone strength.

Babies have the worst cases of osteoporosis ever - their bones are very flexible and can be maintained as the child does a lot of falling.

Bisphosphonates - Fosamax - these inhibit osteoclasts, that break down cells. Old bone MUST be broken down in order for young, flexible, pliable protein matrix to be formed. By inhibiting this process, then calcium has nothing to adhere to - take calcium alone and try to make bone - it would break apart and crumble. The protein, the clay is essential. It is what the calcium sticks to.

All medical treatment for osteoporosis right now all work the same way by inhibiting osteoclasts and when they do break, they shatter by glass. Bones cannot carry much weight because the strength, the protein matrix, is inhibited.

We need vitamin K to allow certain proteins to be sticky enough to hold onto calcium. People on heart meds are cautioned against taking this. These are the same people who have heart disease BECAUSE they have too much calcium in soft tissue. Vitamin K tells calcium where to stick - on protein matrix on bones.

If we only had protein and no calcium in bones, we would only have cartilage. We would have strong bones, but not enough rigidity - we would be like gumby dolls.

High dose calcium supplements are not recommended. As we age our cells have a harder time keeping calcium out. This is the time when we are told to take more calcium. So intracellular calcium rises and cells lose signals everything becomes impaired and mortality rises.

Exercise does help bones. It makes them flex and send signals that more strength is needed - NSAIDs impair this message. Eating more protein will not just result in more protein matrix either. Life is not made up of the parts, it is made up of the organization of those parts, the hormonal signals that tell the parts how to behave optimally. We have to give protein and calcium the knowledge of where to go and what to do in the body.

Eat green vegetables, take vit K and don't listen to your Doctor (LOVE THIS GUY!)

6e24575aafccf63e02172715b3cd60ef

(6)

on September 12, 2011
at 08:26 AM

Just vitamins k? Or more specifically K2 from eggs/liver/butter?

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on September 12, 2011
at 12:18 AM

On my FB group we have a whole library of this - friend me and have at it.

2c8c421cf0e0c462654c7dc37f8b9711

(2729)

on September 11, 2011
at 11:58 PM

this is awesome, Meredith! Thanks so much!

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on September 12, 2011
at 02:43 PM

K2 specifically mk-4 (not MK-7) was what weston A Price called activator X. http://www.westonaprice.org/fat-soluble-activators/x-factor-is-vitamin-k2 http://www.westonaprice.org/fat-soluble-activators/x-factor-is-vitamin-k2 http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/06/activator-x.html

33907fee54e98865a1988e5eef59147e

(480)

on September 12, 2011
at 01:40 AM

this is great meredith, thanks

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on September 12, 2011
at 12:14 AM

There may be typos!

76f3ead3aa977d876bcf3331d35a36e9

(4620)

on September 12, 2011
at 12:02 AM

Ron is the man. Your note taking makes the world a better place, Meredith.

36b7a2776d028dc8d5743e2e56ece34d

(812)

on September 11, 2011
at 11:55 PM

vertebrates started out in the ocean.....

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on September 19, 2011
at 08:16 PM

http://www.stonehearthnewsletters.com/how-exercise-at-the-cellular-level-drives-health-brand-new-study/exercise/ Interesting stuff on bones and exercise.

5
E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on September 11, 2011
at 05:55 PM

Get adequate nutrition but especially make sure your getting enough k2, D, A, calcium, phosphorous and magnesium. Weight bearing exercise is also essential for high bone density.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on September 12, 2011
at 05:27 PM

Exactly. Calcium has been quite overemphasized, as it can't really be incorporated without the other factors, and without the weight-bearing stimulus.

2
Medium avatar

on September 12, 2011
at 05:59 AM

In addition to what has been said, a crucial factor for optimal bone density is sufficient estrogen for females or testosterone for males. Not to bang the drum of zincealotry too much, but supplementing with zinc if you're deficient and addressing hypogonadism could make a huge difference in bone density.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/82/8/2386.short

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199310143291601

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on September 12, 2011
at 03:37 PM

Some say that estrogen promotes the tearing down of bone while progesterone the building back up. As we know, both a crucial for healthy bone.

26b7615ef542394102785a67a2786867

(7967)

on September 12, 2011
at 05:55 PM

This is why I get so upset when women attempting to eat paleo lose their menstrual cycle! Our bodies are meant to be fertile, if we are not it means something is very wrong, and that has various repercussions on our short and long-term health... Also, zincealotry, haha.

0
1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on September 11, 2011
at 09:10 PM

Jump rope helps with bone density.

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