10

votes

What's up with eating disorders and Paleo?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created April 07, 2013 at 3:52 PM

Paleohacks is the main forum I post at, so I realize that this may be more of a Paleohacks thing than a Paleo thing. But I am getting seriously disturbed at the amount of eating disorder talk that goes on.

To clarify, I'm not talking about people who recognize that they have a problem and are taking appropriate steps to help themselves be healthy. I'm talking about questions and answers implying that it's normal to binge. That it's normal or typical that eating a carbohydrate heavy food will send a person into a binge (always carbs, never fat or protein). That fasting after bingeing is the way to go, whether they just say it as an emotional response or whether they justify it with something that sounds halfway sensible. That they feel bad, guilty, regretful, or other such terms after eating things, whether it is a Paleo-friendly item or a "cheat" food. These are generally coupled with questions regarding weight loss.

I can't tell if people who do have healthy relationships with food are using terms like "binge" too loosely, giving the impression that there is a bigger problem when what they really mean is that they fell off the wagon and pigged out on some non-Paleo food, or making the term "binge" less serious than it is from an actual psychological standpoint? Or are a lot of people who don't realize that they have an unhealthy relationship with food assuming that what they do and encounter and think about food is normal and healthy and applies to the general Paleo eater?

I am not talking about any one specific person here, so let's please not start pointing fingers, shaming anyone, or anything like that. I'm genuinely interested, because I find eating disorders very concerning though it is not something I have personal experience with, and I would like to see terms like "binge" be used appropriately, if that is the confusion.

6fece842bd1bcf5724f458a302a2156e

(1169)

on April 20, 2013
at 11:36 AM

As OmNom says healthy eating can normalise eating. If go to a site like radiantrecovery which I found useful they say forget "diet" entirely. First learn to eat three regular meals, eat a lot, eat well. Once that is working then your brain changes to how it ought to be and your cravings and sugar addiction go and you are fine. I have certainly found that is so.

6fece842bd1bcf5724f458a302a2156e

(1169)

on April 20, 2013
at 11:33 AM

Very good answer. What we (or I anyway) seek and am happiest when I have is normality of eating, regular good meals.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on April 18, 2013
at 04:53 PM

Dude, you are way off. Binge eating is the most common eating disorder in the world. It is a documented medical term, not some common definition to eating a lot in a single sitting. Obviously, from her post, when Varelse is using the term it is in the clinical sense. Read a bit before you go attacking people with misinformation.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 18, 2013
at 03:35 PM

So you do understand. You just think that the definitions of words should change because people shouldn't own them and you're a big kid you can say whatever you want. You sure can, and others will call you wrong. Thanks for playing!

753e23a7aca6ad0d84f996bf64dfa79c

(-4)

on April 18, 2013
at 02:30 AM

Binging isn't a definition set in stone. It can be used appropriately in describing mild overeating to more serious cases. Binging can even be healthy. When you read threads here the context is pretty obvious most of the time. My point is the word isn't owned by people with disorders. Paleo hacks shouldnt have to overly define every word just because extremists may twist it to suit their extreme needs.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 18, 2013
at 01:26 AM

I agree, UncleLongHair, but that isn't really my point. I suppose my question could be summed up as, "Do you think the word binge is being used accurately and with due respect to psychological components on Paleohacks, as it relates to both normalizing problematic behavior and calling normal behaviors problematic?"

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 18, 2013
at 01:23 AM

That's very likely / possible. Still doesn't make it normal or healthy, or make simply overeating on occasion a binge. I do notice that it is often younger people and usually women who talk about it, both in terms of "I binged on a whole avocado" without psychological components, and women who speak about hiding in their rooms eating junk food until they feel quite ill and then having very strong emotions about the experience.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 18, 2013
at 01:21 AM

The point is that BINGING is not healthy mentally, even if the foods eaten at each binge do not cause physical side effects. Go look up the true definition of binge/binging/binge eating and you will see that it isn't just eating more than a person needs on occasion. The word is misused often as just meaning to overeat, and that is my point. Misuse of a word leads to confusion. No one can stop you from using the term binge very loosely and out of context, but your freedom to do so doesn't make it accurate.

753e23a7aca6ad0d84f996bf64dfa79c

(-4)

on April 17, 2013
at 11:18 PM

The main point is reasonable people understand what kind of binging is healthy and which is not. People with eating disorders are not reasonable, and will always look for a way to justify their addiction.

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on April 17, 2013
at 09:24 AM

And it's Travis for the win! You always have answers that resonate! A voice of sanity in the wildernesss... thank you.

618fc5298c4a96b817c4918c795a875f

(1217)

on April 17, 2013
at 02:39 AM

While it may be far from what is intended, "cheats", "refeeds", and intermittent fasting might all be things that attract bingers to these kinds of eating programs. Maybe?

618fc5298c4a96b817c4918c795a875f

(1217)

on April 17, 2013
at 02:37 AM

Do you think that many of these questions come from a younger paleo demographic? I notice that there is a segment of the PH posters that seem to be young (many say they are in school) and very concerned with low body fat, as opposed to others who have specific concerns about food and its effect on their bodies within a paleo framework. I have also wondered about the terms "cheat" and "re-feed" as possible coded terms that may allow for bingeing for those who are predisposed to it. The point made about IF is a very good one - it is a way for bulimics and binge eaters to assuage their guilt.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 17, 2013
at 01:47 AM

Not defensive. I can admit plenty of things that I do, but that's one thing that is not among them. Anyone can, but that doesn't mean everyone does. Unless you count binge as overeating of any sort, which I do on occasion. I think you have completely missed the point, and I would encourage you to read over the other answers and comments on this thread to get a better idea.

753e23a7aca6ad0d84f996bf64dfa79c

(-4)

on April 17, 2013
at 12:17 AM

Haha, so what you don't binge. Looks like someone is a bit defensive. Everyone can binge. Heck you can binge on a carton of strawberries and its hardly unhealthy. What your suggesting is neutering the discussion, people on here shouldn't have to qualify what they say just because there are people with disorders who tend to take things the wrong way.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 16, 2013
at 10:25 PM

Um, your binge is nothing like my binge cause I don't do it. Additionally, I'm not advocating "neutering" discussion, just calling things what they are and differentiating between healthy and unhealthy. Doesn't mean we can't talk about the unhealthy, but it's better for everyone if we acknowledge it for what it is instead of pretending that it's normal/healthy/typical.

2e6e673ce3eb647407d260d4d57a731b

(1021)

on April 16, 2013
at 09:38 PM

paleo is ruled by sick people

9a5e2da94ad63ea3186dfa494e16a8d1

(15833)

on April 16, 2013
at 11:55 AM

I think that people who are drawn to alternative diets in the first place are more likely to have some kind of eating or health problem, which is why you see so many questions about that here. A doctor spends all of his time talking to sick people but needs to remember that the entire population isn't sick, only the ones that come to him.

B9e83fb8d3fc178f201eca69639ce4ba

(35)

on April 16, 2013
at 06:03 AM

As varelse has posted, I was commenting on the jarg member "hannah" trying to geg in. sorry should have been more clear...

72cf727474b8bf815fdc505e58cadfea

on April 10, 2013
at 05:19 AM

You may be exaggerating on the low-carb diets, though. I know people who have done extremely well on them (though their primary goal wasn't to lose weight in the first place). I'm also not ready to completely dismiss IF as a life-extension and health promotion technique, though it could be a risky way to try to lose weight for someone who has emotionally-driven food issues.

72cf727474b8bf815fdc505e58cadfea

on April 10, 2013
at 05:15 AM

I agree about the fear-mongering. Maybe for some things it's the only way to go (e.g., if it's factually true that micromolar quantities of gluten are poisonous, then you can't really talk about moderation). But for the majority of things, it would probably be a lot healthier to encourage people to crowd out the bad stuff with good stuff, rather than just trying to scare them. My low tolerance for alarmism is one reason I get so much of my information from paleohacks rather than "official" books.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on April 09, 2013
at 09:03 PM

(part 3) At the very least, I'm giving hard thought to avoiding any questions that sound like eating disorder issues.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on April 09, 2013
at 09:02 PM

(part 2) This dilemma of being susceptible to the emotions/cravings of others is forcing me to consider whether I should continue coming to PH or if it might be a risky place for me. Damn it!

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on April 09, 2013
at 09:00 PM

(part 1) An excellent essay, Travis. In my case, I had an eating disorder when I came to PH and, despite doing very well lately, I'm clear that I still have the disorder sitting there dormant and I probably always will. It's fascinating to me that during months away from reading paleo sites including PH my thought patterns--and therefore my eating patterns definitely became more healthy. After only a week or 2 back reading PH and some other sites, comments by people suffering anxiety about food and/or urges to binge have caused me to have fleeting disordered thoughts.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 09, 2013
at 07:09 PM

This was a really great answer with some really good points. Not looking for weight loss myself, maybe I just don't get drawn into that hole of what to try next.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 09, 2013
at 06:10 PM

Certainly this is on of the 3 most important answers ever written on all of paleohacks. I think I'm gearing up to go troll AHS 2013.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 09, 2013
at 06:07 PM

Certainly this is on of the 3 most important answers ever written on all of paleohacks.

Fd7b128cf714044a86d8bd822c7a8992

(4292)

on April 09, 2013
at 05:24 PM

*I wish people were drawn toward nutrient-dense foods instead of driven away from supposedly scary ones.* This! I'm reading Nutrition and Physical Degeneration right now and it's amazing to me how much emphasis he puts on including good foods and how little on scaring people away from "bad" ones. It's really inspiring actually, especially the lack of concern about weight loss in general.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 09, 2013
at 04:29 PM

I appreciate your response, but it isn't really an answer to the questions that I posted. I don't think at all that Paleo causes eating disorders. My issue is that. I think that this particular community sometimes normalizes or trivilaizes irrational eating behaviors instead of promoting healthy ones.

6864d23c49952605b2a97d6256af804d

(726)

on April 08, 2013
at 06:50 PM

I guess we'll have to wait for the DSM V. Apparently they've added a provisional Binge Eating Disorder diagnosis. http://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/eating-disorder-diagnosis-changes-dsm-v-0226135

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 08, 2013
at 03:40 AM

I think Paleohacks can help with, though not cure, an eating disorder that is already recognized. But if the person is still in denial or does not recognize their disordered behaviors, I think it can be used to justify the behaviors and bad ideas, particularly when some of the more extreme approaches are implemented.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 08, 2013
at 03:32 AM

To summarize, my point was that eating disorders should be discussed and recognized for what they are. They should not be trivialized by people who do not have them jokingly or carelessly using ED terminology or normalized by people who do have them implying that binging or other disordered eating patterns are healthy.

C68f0b374156e5ce7a9b8358232bfed0

(637)

on April 08, 2013
at 03:29 AM

From personal experience I disagree. I found that Paleo helped me and my eating disorder. My eating disorder stemmed from sugar addiction and denial of nutritious food. On Paleo I get all my nutritious food and the very things I was denying myself which were fuelling the disordered eating. I don't have any cravings anymore, or rather may have one bout of disordered thoughts once a month if that and rearely conceed to them. I just don't have the interest. I can eat the foods I desired before and the restriction on the others provide necessary boundaries to prevent me venturing down there again.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 08, 2013
at 03:28 AM

I really appreciate you taking the time to post, but I think you misunderstood both what I actually said and my intent. Please go back in carefully reread my post and the responses from others, because I don't want you or anyone else to feel that people with eating disorders are not welcome here or that it is a subject that should not be discussed.

089dd41b18fbb95ebb5347cded708d98

(5635)

on April 08, 2013
at 02:56 AM

yes, I totally agree, Varelse. it's cool to see how everyone thinks about this topic.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 07, 2013
at 11:46 PM

At the time this was posted, if in order of most recent, it was Hannah's comment below that he was referring to. And to that, I most wholeheartedly agree that I wouldn't want that type of user to be representative of PH. I also don't think it's EVER a problem for a person with an eating disorder, or any other issue, to talk about it on PH. Just that medical problems, including ED but also including obesity and diabetes, are not typical/normal and not a problem for the average person. Example being that carbs should be avoided because they trigger binges - not applicable to someone without ED.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on April 07, 2013
at 11:07 PM

In addition to what AxialGentleman said about reordering of answers based on points awarded, I will point out that this site, and the paleo community in general, includes a diverse group of people with many different types of issues. There's certainly a segment with eating disorders, another with lots of anxiety--with or without disordered eating--and some who get obsessed with exercise, or specific medical conditions, etc., so if you're looking for a group where no one's struggling or describing issues they're trying to resolve you came to the wrong place.

72cf727474b8bf815fdc505e58cadfea

on April 07, 2013
at 10:50 PM

Questions are reordered by number of upvotes, and sometimes randomly within that, so it's no longer clear who you were talking about.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 07, 2013
at 10:01 PM

Sounds like you should gen up on the Art of Trolling. They probably have a remedial course at your juvenile delinquency school.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 07, 2013
at 09:56 PM

Sounds like you should gen up on the act of gobbing or greming

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 07, 2013
at 09:44 PM

Even Urban Dictionary doesn't have a satisfactory definition for that word...

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 07, 2013
at 09:31 PM

It's nasty and leaves a mess to clean up

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 07, 2013
at 09:30 PM

All I'm saying is that with all of the lovely things one could do for another, why would you ever choose to grem?

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 07, 2013
at 09:03 PM

Yeah, sometimes it is hard to distinguish between "worrying" about a tweak and "wondering" about a tweak! I'm definitely in the "wondering" category. I also agree that it's hard to draw a line and say "THIS is okay, but THIS right here is an eating disorder."

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 07, 2013
at 08:53 PM

Wikipedia does have a little information (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binge_eating_disorder) and Binge Eating Disorder is recognized by the APA under the DSM IV under "eating disorders not otherwise specified." (Orthorexia is not). "Binge" alone is not very specifically defined outside of the pattern. (Just a little more info)

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 07, 2013
at 08:46 PM

Say whaaaaa?

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 07, 2013
at 08:45 PM

That is interesting. Having had experience with mental disease but not specifically eating disorders, I kinda thought that there was a bit more definition to the components of ED than is reflected here. I may be wrong on that. More research is needed. :) Thank you for your input!

6864d23c49952605b2a97d6256af804d

(726)

on April 07, 2013
at 08:04 PM

Yes, semantics are important when there's an agreed-upon meaning attached, such as clinical depression. Yes, that's far different from feeling blue, but it's also far different from major depressive disorder, and there are clinical metrics to distinguish these differences. Since no such metrics exist (yet) for binge eaters vs overeaters vs slightly anxious IF'ers, little accuracy should be expected when these terms are encountered. These are interesting questions - thanks for posting.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 07, 2013
at 07:38 PM

You're right. Paleo is a good answer to help many physical ailments. But it does not cure an eating disorder, and it can definitely mask symptoms and keep an unhealthy person in denial if it is not used to alleviate recognized symptoms.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 07, 2013
at 07:06 PM

Okay, I do see your point. My counterpoint though is that when we are talking about a health issue, semantics become important. The difference between a person overeating and a person binging is important when we are comparing psychological states and potential harm, just as (referencing AxialGentleman here) the difference between a person feeling a little blue and a person with clinical depression is huge. You CAN use the terms interchangeably because no one can stop you, but that doesn't mean that they are accurate.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 07, 2013
at 06:51 PM

Hrm. I was kinda hoping it was just a PH thing. I guess any diet+teh interwebz is likely to attract some bad ideas about food, though.

6864d23c49952605b2a97d6256af804d

(726)

on April 07, 2013
at 06:37 PM

You referred to binge eating, and Emily wrote 'One can easily eat too little and intermittent fast too much on a strict paleo/primal diet, causing hormonal problems.' Binge eating, like orthorexia, is not an official psychiatric disorder. When people say that they binged, there is no reason to believe that they are referring to any eating disorder. It's just semantics, and worrying it is exactly what Emily meant when she said 'like all psychiatric conditions the cardinal issue is that the obsession interferes with normal functioning or relationships or causes pathology, such as anxiety.'

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on April 07, 2013
at 06:14 PM

Believe me, it's been seen on MDA as well.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 07, 2013
at 05:59 PM

Thank you! I agree. Sometimes I do eat more than I need of a food, whether Paleo or not, just cause it tastes good and I want it. I don't call it a binge, though, because it isn't an all consuming urge that can't be stopped, I don't make myself sick, and I don't have any feelings of guilt or anything. I think sometimes people who also just overeat sometimes call it a binge, and that is where the confusion comes in. Or people who do it with the uncontrollable urge and all where it is a "true binge" normalize it or assume that everyone does it and needs to take steps to avoid it. Mindset is key!

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 07, 2013
at 05:41 PM

I browsed through those articles, but I did not see anything related to the normalization of eating disorders or dismissing eating disorders. Orthorexia, while a cute buzzword for people who take their diets more seriously than others think they should, is not recognized as a psychiatric disorder nor is it what I was referring to.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 07, 2013
at 05:04 PM

To be equally frank, though, the place I see the problem is PH, not MDA, so discussing a problem seen on PH on MDA would be silly.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 07, 2013
at 05:03 PM

Thank you for letting me know! I agree that the definition may be subjective, and rightfully so - but I maintain that it is still a "serious" word for a serious problem that should not be trivialized or used lightly.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on April 07, 2013
at 04:56 PM

"I would like to see terms like "binge" be used appropriately, if that is the confusion." This sums up (but is not the only reason) why I marked to close your question. You can't ask people to share the same definition as you--way too much diversity of experience here. The whole topic is like chasing cats and frankly is more appropriate for a discussion forum like Marks Daily Apple.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 07, 2013
at 04:55 PM

Yes, you've got it, and you're good. :) I +1'd your answer and I didn't think you were being overly defensive. There are many helpful, sane people here who give appropriate answers and suggestions, but there are also many who either give advice discounting problems like ED, or who give advice assuming that everyone suffers from ED (or obesity or diabetes, TBH).

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on April 07, 2013
at 04:32 PM

It is a legitimate question. Don't worry - you can't please everyone.

72cf727474b8bf815fdc505e58cadfea

on April 07, 2013
at 04:28 PM

I apologize if I partly misunderstood your question. It sparked a lot of different thoughts about things I've observed here too, but I didn't mean for it to be excessively defensive and imply that there aren't any problems. It sounds like you're talking about two sets of potential issues, one relating to people on the forum excusing or normalizing behaviors that should be recognized as eating disordered, and one relating to talking about fairly normal behaviors in terms that people with an ED might misunderstand as applying to them. Is that closer?

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 07, 2013
at 04:26 PM

Please advise as to your reasons for marking this question "subjective and argumentative." It was certainly not my intention and I would be happy to revise my post to make my helpful and concerned intent more clear.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 07, 2013
at 04:21 PM

... thinking and behavior patterns toward food are normal or healthy.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 07, 2013
at 04:20 PM

No, I don't specifically have any suggestions, because you are right in that the majority of long-time posters are good about not feeding into the obviously disordered eating questions. But that's why I opened up this question! I see problem, I don't see solution, but I want to find a solution so that everyone can benefit. NO ONE benefits from negative eating/thinking patterns being normalized or trivialized, especially those, like many of the teen girls who drive-by post and probably more who lurk, who have legitimate problems who are then led to believe that their irrational...

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13 Answers

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1
B9e83fb8d3fc178f201eca69639ce4ba

on April 07, 2013
at 10:14 PM

Very disturbed as to what the user above has to offer on the subject and I hope it is not indicative of the kind of people that frequent the site...

72cf727474b8bf815fdc505e58cadfea

on April 07, 2013
at 10:50 PM

Questions are reordered by number of upvotes, and sometimes randomly within that, so it's no longer clear who you were talking about.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 07, 2013
at 11:46 PM

At the time this was posted, if in order of most recent, it was Hannah's comment below that he was referring to. And to that, I most wholeheartedly agree that I wouldn't want that type of user to be representative of PH. I also don't think it's EVER a problem for a person with an eating disorder, or any other issue, to talk about it on PH. Just that medical problems, including ED but also including obesity and diabetes, are not typical/normal and not a problem for the average person. Example being that carbs should be avoided because they trigger binges - not applicable to someone without ED.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on April 07, 2013
at 11:07 PM

In addition to what AxialGentleman said about reordering of answers based on points awarded, I will point out that this site, and the paleo community in general, includes a diverse group of people with many different types of issues. There's certainly a segment with eating disorders, another with lots of anxiety--with or without disordered eating--and some who get obsessed with exercise, or specific medical conditions, etc., so if you're looking for a group where no one's struggling or describing issues they're trying to resolve you came to the wrong place.

B9e83fb8d3fc178f201eca69639ce4ba

(35)

on April 16, 2013
at 06:03 AM

As varelse has posted, I was commenting on the jarg member "hannah" trying to geg in. sorry should have been more clear...

9
089dd41b18fbb95ebb5347cded708d98

(5635)

on April 07, 2013
at 05:46 PM

as someone who has recovered from an eating disorder, i used to "binge" and "purge" for years. when people mention "binging" on here, most of the time, i feel the term is used loosely. i don't think it's connected to an eating disorder- just a meal or day that someone pigged out on. eating disorders are very mentally and emotionally driven and there is a system to the binge- order of events, certain foods, timing, wanting people around/be in private.

i'm not saying all the posts here about binging are to be taken lightly since some of the posters do admit that they have a problem.

i haven't had a binge in a few years now but whenever i overindulge or eat more than i normally would have, i don't consider it a "binge" now since my mindset is different. i just say "okay. i ate a little too much or not the right foods at this meal. no need to punish myself. just move on."

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 07, 2013
at 05:59 PM

Thank you! I agree. Sometimes I do eat more than I need of a food, whether Paleo or not, just cause it tastes good and I want it. I don't call it a binge, though, because it isn't an all consuming urge that can't be stopped, I don't make myself sick, and I don't have any feelings of guilt or anything. I think sometimes people who also just overeat sometimes call it a binge, and that is where the confusion comes in. Or people who do it with the uncontrollable urge and all where it is a "true binge" normalize it or assume that everyone does it and needs to take steps to avoid it. Mindset is key!

089dd41b18fbb95ebb5347cded708d98

(5635)

on April 08, 2013
at 02:56 AM

yes, I totally agree, Varelse. it's cool to see how everyone thinks about this topic.

8
Medium avatar

on April 09, 2013
at 05:03 PM

I think that "paleo" as it is practiced by the vast majority of people is disordered eating. I think the majority of paleo books feed into it with their heavy emphasis on fear-mongering. I wish people were drawn toward nutrient-dense foods instead of driven away from supposedly scary ones. There is no such thing as a healthy diet coupled with an unhealthy relationship with food. I don't believe that intentional fasting is a healthy practice in the least bit and should not be necessary at all to lose bodyfat. If it is, the diet is sloppy to begin with. If the concepts of binging, cheating, compensatory fasting etc. routinely arise, there is a serious problem.

I think the primary reason why we see these things is that paleo attracts people primarily as a weight loss diet and fails very often to produce appreciable results. The emphasis on carbohydrates instead of calories sets people up for failure from the first step. Nearly all of the gurus promoting these high fat low carb crap diets seem to get pudgier by the year. At each plateau, people are offered a new disordered eating technique to add to the pile. Your problem must be fruit! You ate breakfast? Are you crazy?

I'd like to see all of these gurus defenestrate themselves from their eating windows...if they can fit through them.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 09, 2013
at 07:09 PM

This was a really great answer with some really good points. Not looking for weight loss myself, maybe I just don't get drawn into that hole of what to try next.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 09, 2013
at 06:10 PM

Certainly this is on of the 3 most important answers ever written on all of paleohacks. I think I'm gearing up to go troll AHS 2013.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on April 09, 2013
at 09:02 PM

(part 2) This dilemma of being susceptible to the emotions/cravings of others is forcing me to consider whether I should continue coming to PH or if it might be a risky place for me. Damn it!

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on April 09, 2013
at 09:00 PM

(part 1) An excellent essay, Travis. In my case, I had an eating disorder when I came to PH and, despite doing very well lately, I'm clear that I still have the disorder sitting there dormant and I probably always will. It's fascinating to me that during months away from reading paleo sites including PH my thought patterns--and therefore my eating patterns definitely became more healthy. After only a week or 2 back reading PH and some other sites, comments by people suffering anxiety about food and/or urges to binge have caused me to have fleeting disordered thoughts.

72cf727474b8bf815fdc505e58cadfea

on April 10, 2013
at 05:15 AM

I agree about the fear-mongering. Maybe for some things it's the only way to go (e.g., if it's factually true that micromolar quantities of gluten are poisonous, then you can't really talk about moderation). But for the majority of things, it would probably be a lot healthier to encourage people to crowd out the bad stuff with good stuff, rather than just trying to scare them. My low tolerance for alarmism is one reason I get so much of my information from paleohacks rather than "official" books.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 09, 2013
at 06:07 PM

Certainly this is on of the 3 most important answers ever written on all of paleohacks.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on April 09, 2013
at 09:03 PM

(part 3) At the very least, I'm giving hard thought to avoiding any questions that sound like eating disorder issues.

Fd7b128cf714044a86d8bd822c7a8992

(4292)

on April 09, 2013
at 05:24 PM

*I wish people were drawn toward nutrient-dense foods instead of driven away from supposedly scary ones.* This! I'm reading Nutrition and Physical Degeneration right now and it's amazing to me how much emphasis he puts on including good foods and how little on scaring people away from "bad" ones. It's really inspiring actually, especially the lack of concern about weight loss in general.

72cf727474b8bf815fdc505e58cadfea

on April 10, 2013
at 05:19 AM

You may be exaggerating on the low-carb diets, though. I know people who have done extremely well on them (though their primary goal wasn't to lose weight in the first place). I'm also not ready to completely dismiss IF as a life-extension and health promotion technique, though it could be a risky way to try to lose weight for someone who has emotionally-driven food issues.

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on April 17, 2013
at 09:24 AM

And it's Travis for the win! You always have answers that resonate! A voice of sanity in the wildernesss... thank you.

6fece842bd1bcf5724f458a302a2156e

(1169)

on April 20, 2013
at 11:33 AM

Very good answer. What we (or I anyway) seek and am happiest when I have is normality of eating, regular good meals.

7
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 07, 2013
at 07:29 PM

It's not just paleo. It's any diet really. There's so much body dysmorphia and dysfunctional relationships with food out there, it's really sad. As much as we like to think paleo is a good answer, for some folks it's just more gasoline on the fire. It's restrictive, it has good/bad foods, it has shortcuts written all over it. Frustrating to say the least.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 08, 2013
at 03:40 AM

I think Paleohacks can help with, though not cure, an eating disorder that is already recognized. But if the person is still in denial or does not recognize their disordered behaviors, I think it can be used to justify the behaviors and bad ideas, particularly when some of the more extreme approaches are implemented.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 07, 2013
at 07:38 PM

You're right. Paleo is a good answer to help many physical ailments. But it does not cure an eating disorder, and it can definitely mask symptoms and keep an unhealthy person in denial if it is not used to alleviate recognized symptoms.

C68f0b374156e5ce7a9b8358232bfed0

(637)

on April 08, 2013
at 03:29 AM

From personal experience I disagree. I found that Paleo helped me and my eating disorder. My eating disorder stemmed from sugar addiction and denial of nutritious food. On Paleo I get all my nutritious food and the very things I was denying myself which were fuelling the disordered eating. I don't have any cravings anymore, or rather may have one bout of disordered thoughts once a month if that and rearely conceed to them. I just don't have the interest. I can eat the foods I desired before and the restriction on the others provide necessary boundaries to prevent me venturing down there again.

6fece842bd1bcf5724f458a302a2156e

(1169)

on April 20, 2013
at 11:36 AM

As OmNom says healthy eating can normalise eating. If go to a site like radiantrecovery which I found useful they say forget "diet" entirely. First learn to eat three regular meals, eat a lot, eat well. Once that is working then your brain changes to how it ought to be and your cravings and sugar addiction go and you are fine. I have certainly found that is so.

7
72cf727474b8bf815fdc505e58cadfea

on April 07, 2013
at 04:11 PM

This is a really interesting set of questions. You're almost certainly right that some people use "binge" loosely, the same way that people who have never had a mental illness will freely talk about feeling "depressed" or "manic" or "being OCD" about something. But there isn't really another word for feeling a strong desire to eat quickly and heavily until you feel unwell, so I'm not too critical of that. There is a difference between binging and having binge eating disorder.

It's possible that there is a higher prevalence of binging among the paleo community, not because the diet is unhealthy but because many people who are otherwise prone to binging have found that it helps them get the physiological component of binging under control. Or maybe the diet does make some people prone to binge eating. I imagine it's not uncommon among people who try to go very-low-carb without adequate preparation, or who just find that it's not a good match for their physiology.

Regarding why it's always carbs, as far as I know binges among binge eaters in general usually involve carb-heavy foods. It's less common to hear about someone binging on steak or cheese.

Fasting after a binge is a bad idea for people with bulimia or BED because it's associated with an exaggerated idea of atonement and with disordered beliefs about weight loss. It's also often being done among people who are already malnourished or starving themselves, and so fasting is very likely to lead to another cycle of binging. The fasting I've occasionally seen prescribed here after a binge is "don't eat until you're hungry again," which is also standard advice that many people on paleo diets try to follow when they're not binging. It is different from the conventional wisdom for BED specifically, and probably is bad for some people. On the other hand, it's consistent with the the common advice that people with eating disorders should work on getting in touch with their physiological signals of hunger and satiety.

I suspect that paleo plans involving intermittent fasting do attract some people who want to fast for the wrong reasons. I think the community responses to those people are usually pretty good. I haven't seen encouraging responses regarding fasting for someone who's already excessively skinny or someone who complains about how they're stuck at a gross, obese 13% bodyfat and can't get down (unless they're a bodybuilder preparing for a competition, in which case long-term malnourishment is the last thing they want).

Calling non-paleo foods "cheat" foods may indeed be unfortunate. I can see that feeding into a tendency to feel guilty and overly emotionally involved with food. In general I find the acceptance of 80/20 or 90/10 paleo plans to be a really good thing about the community, and to work against any fears of or tendencies toward orthorexia. But if you'd like to suggest a better way to talk about it, that could be very helpful.

72cf727474b8bf815fdc505e58cadfea

on April 07, 2013
at 04:28 PM

I apologize if I partly misunderstood your question. It sparked a lot of different thoughts about things I've observed here too, but I didn't mean for it to be excessively defensive and imply that there aren't any problems. It sounds like you're talking about two sets of potential issues, one relating to people on the forum excusing or normalizing behaviors that should be recognized as eating disordered, and one relating to talking about fairly normal behaviors in terms that people with an ED might misunderstand as applying to them. Is that closer?

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 07, 2013
at 04:20 PM

No, I don't specifically have any suggestions, because you are right in that the majority of long-time posters are good about not feeding into the obviously disordered eating questions. But that's why I opened up this question! I see problem, I don't see solution, but I want to find a solution so that everyone can benefit. NO ONE benefits from negative eating/thinking patterns being normalized or trivialized, especially those, like many of the teen girls who drive-by post and probably more who lurk, who have legitimate problems who are then led to believe that their irrational...

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 07, 2013
at 04:21 PM

... thinking and behavior patterns toward food are normal or healthy.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 07, 2013
at 04:55 PM

Yes, you've got it, and you're good. :) I +1'd your answer and I didn't think you were being overly defensive. There are many helpful, sane people here who give appropriate answers and suggestions, but there are also many who either give advice discounting problems like ED, or who give advice assuming that everyone suffers from ED (or obesity or diabetes, TBH).

618fc5298c4a96b817c4918c795a875f

(1217)

on April 17, 2013
at 02:39 AM

While it may be far from what is intended, "cheats", "refeeds", and intermittent fasting might all be things that attract bingers to these kinds of eating programs. Maybe?

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 18, 2013
at 01:23 AM

That's very likely / possible. Still doesn't make it normal or healthy, or make simply overeating on occasion a binge. I do notice that it is often younger people and usually women who talk about it, both in terms of "I binged on a whole avocado" without psychological components, and women who speak about hiding in their rooms eating junk food until they feel quite ill and then having very strong emotions about the experience.

618fc5298c4a96b817c4918c795a875f

(1217)

on April 17, 2013
at 02:37 AM

Do you think that many of these questions come from a younger paleo demographic? I notice that there is a segment of the PH posters that seem to be young (many say they are in school) and very concerned with low body fat, as opposed to others who have specific concerns about food and its effect on their bodies within a paleo framework. I have also wondered about the terms "cheat" and "re-feed" as possible coded terms that may allow for bingeing for those who are predisposed to it. The point made about IF is a very good one - it is a way for bulimics and binge eaters to assuage their guilt.

5
32652cb696b75182cb121009ee4edea3

(5802)

on April 07, 2013
at 08:24 PM

This is an interesting question. So many layers you could dig into. I have to say that there are definitely times I step outside of my body and ask, "do I STILL have an eating disorder? Have I just learned to camouflage it better? Am I healed, or am I dabbling?"

One factor on paleohacks is that I think people who are drawn to "hacking" tend to be those already predisposed to obsess about details. (There was one thread awhile back about how many INTJ females there are on here.) Most of us are incessant tweakers. I know I track things in a way that would appear to some to be unhealthy, but it gives me peace. Is it good to satisfy that control freak inside myself so I can go on with an otherwise normal life, or am I feeding the beast? I don't know the answer to that.

I do know that paleo is the first thing that has EVER made me feel like I'm making progress toward normal. As a person who gained weight (about 70 lb) over the past 2 decades eating no more than 1200 cal a day, I would weep with the realization that I would have to either choose to be fat or starve. I did have an eating disorder, but it was because I had a broken metabolism. It wasn't my imagination. Paleo is the first time in my life that I've ever been able to just EAT! And I don't think I'm unique. People are just at different points in this journey.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 07, 2013
at 09:03 PM

Yeah, sometimes it is hard to distinguish between "worrying" about a tweak and "wondering" about a tweak! I'm definitely in the "wondering" category. I also agree that it's hard to draw a line and say "THIS is okay, but THIS right here is an eating disorder."

2
Dc6407193ba441d1438f6f0c06af872b

on April 09, 2013
at 02:24 PM

I think it's simple. People who are obsessive about food are drawn to diets. Probably there are people with various degrees of eating disorders drawn to Paleo, Atkins, Vegan, Zone, MyPlate, etc. Within the PaleoHacks community, a disproportionate number of people may have eating issues, but Paleo didn't cause it. In fact, they may be looking for solutions, or furthering their obsessions, etc. Same with Atkins, Vegan, etc.

So, Paleo doesn't cause the problem, and not all people who visit here have eating disorders.

Let's face it, Paleo is a bit like a Star Trek convention: you'll have plenty of average people, and you'll some people with issues, as well. The convention didn't cause those people to have issues. Same thing with any specialized community: you'll get the mainstream people, and you'll draw people to it who may be doing so in an unhealthy way. That's the nature of specialized communities.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 09, 2013
at 04:29 PM

I appreciate your response, but it isn't really an answer to the questions that I posted. I don't think at all that Paleo causes eating disorders. My issue is that. I think that this particular community sometimes normalizes or trivilaizes irrational eating behaviors instead of promoting healthy ones.

2
6864d23c49952605b2a97d6256af804d

(726)

on April 07, 2013
at 05:24 PM

Emily Deans has a few posts on this topic.

http://evolutionarypsychiatry.blogspot.com/search?q=orthorexia

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 07, 2013
at 05:41 PM

I browsed through those articles, but I did not see anything related to the normalization of eating disorders or dismissing eating disorders. Orthorexia, while a cute buzzword for people who take their diets more seriously than others think they should, is not recognized as a psychiatric disorder nor is it what I was referring to.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 07, 2013
at 08:45 PM

That is interesting. Having had experience with mental disease but not specifically eating disorders, I kinda thought that there was a bit more definition to the components of ED than is reflected here. I may be wrong on that. More research is needed. :) Thank you for your input!

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 07, 2013
at 07:06 PM

Okay, I do see your point. My counterpoint though is that when we are talking about a health issue, semantics become important. The difference between a person overeating and a person binging is important when we are comparing psychological states and potential harm, just as (referencing AxialGentleman here) the difference between a person feeling a little blue and a person with clinical depression is huge. You CAN use the terms interchangeably because no one can stop you, but that doesn't mean that they are accurate.

6864d23c49952605b2a97d6256af804d

(726)

on April 07, 2013
at 08:04 PM

Yes, semantics are important when there's an agreed-upon meaning attached, such as clinical depression. Yes, that's far different from feeling blue, but it's also far different from major depressive disorder, and there are clinical metrics to distinguish these differences. Since no such metrics exist (yet) for binge eaters vs overeaters vs slightly anxious IF'ers, little accuracy should be expected when these terms are encountered. These are interesting questions - thanks for posting.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 07, 2013
at 08:53 PM

Wikipedia does have a little information (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binge_eating_disorder) and Binge Eating Disorder is recognized by the APA under the DSM IV under "eating disorders not otherwise specified." (Orthorexia is not). "Binge" alone is not very specifically defined outside of the pattern. (Just a little more info)

6864d23c49952605b2a97d6256af804d

(726)

on April 07, 2013
at 06:37 PM

You referred to binge eating, and Emily wrote 'One can easily eat too little and intermittent fast too much on a strict paleo/primal diet, causing hormonal problems.' Binge eating, like orthorexia, is not an official psychiatric disorder. When people say that they binged, there is no reason to believe that they are referring to any eating disorder. It's just semantics, and worrying it is exactly what Emily meant when she said 'like all psychiatric conditions the cardinal issue is that the obsession interferes with normal functioning or relationships or causes pathology, such as anxiety.'

6864d23c49952605b2a97d6256af804d

(726)

on April 08, 2013
at 06:50 PM

I guess we'll have to wait for the DSM V. Apparently they've added a provisional Binge Eating Disorder diagnosis. http://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/eating-disorder-diagnosis-changes-dsm-v-0226135

2
43e6e312fcc6b2cd2238e7898ad50480

on April 07, 2013
at 04:19 PM

I've thought the same thing many times when browsing this forum, to the point where I deliberately avoid looking at posts asking about body composition, what to do after a binge, if someone is losing (or gaining) enough weight, or ANYTHING related to calories.

It's very easy to fall into the trap of believing that eating in a way that you define as 'Paleo' should instantly give you the kind of body you see on the front page of a fitness magazine, but the reality is that for the vast majority of us the effects of eating Paleo are not going to be visible, except for maybe a bit of weight loss or some clearing up of acne or eczema. I FEEL amazing since going Paleo, and I have lost weight, but that's the ONLY visible evidence of what I'm doing. The proof is in how I feel, and it took me almost a year of eating this way to realise that as long as I feel good, am healthy and happy, what I'm doing is right! I no longer feel like I need to look like a swimsuit model as some kind of evidence that this is 'working'.

This obsession with weight loss, body comp and macronutrients can be quite damaging, because most of us here are normal people going about life, not full-time Paleo moguls or athletes.

1
2e1591c76896828077b930de5107f1af

on April 07, 2013
at 07:10 PM

i weigh all my food, and track it on myfinesspal, even if i want to gain weight.although im comming from a bodybuilding standpoint, we track our food to reach our goals. i think its not very commun for an 18 years old to track all of his food and that i might be ortherexia(how ever you spell it;). ) i had a few binges in the past but its getting quite better i think!

0
753e23a7aca6ad0d84f996bf64dfa79c

on April 16, 2013
at 08:29 PM

My question to you is who cares? Yes, you can use paleo hacks to help your eating disorder, much like a cutting knife can be used to kill people. Does this mean we should get rid of knives? In that same vien binging is not a word owned and defined by people with disorders exclusively. My binge is different from your binge. Also, there are legitament reasons to fast and to tweak your diet. The fact is lots of things can be used for the wrong reason, and I would hate the discussion here to be neutered because of the fear that people with disorders can abuse it.

2e6e673ce3eb647407d260d4d57a731b

(1021)

on April 16, 2013
at 09:38 PM

paleo is ruled by sick people

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on April 18, 2013
at 04:53 PM

Dude, you are way off. Binge eating is the most common eating disorder in the world. It is a documented medical term, not some common definition to eating a lot in a single sitting. Obviously, from her post, when Varelse is using the term it is in the clinical sense. Read a bit before you go attacking people with misinformation.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 16, 2013
at 10:25 PM

Um, your binge is nothing like my binge cause I don't do it. Additionally, I'm not advocating "neutering" discussion, just calling things what they are and differentiating between healthy and unhealthy. Doesn't mean we can't talk about the unhealthy, but it's better for everyone if we acknowledge it for what it is instead of pretending that it's normal/healthy/typical.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 17, 2013
at 01:47 AM

Not defensive. I can admit plenty of things that I do, but that's one thing that is not among them. Anyone can, but that doesn't mean everyone does. Unless you count binge as overeating of any sort, which I do on occasion. I think you have completely missed the point, and I would encourage you to read over the other answers and comments on this thread to get a better idea.

753e23a7aca6ad0d84f996bf64dfa79c

(-4)

on April 18, 2013
at 02:30 AM

Binging isn't a definition set in stone. It can be used appropriately in describing mild overeating to more serious cases. Binging can even be healthy. When you read threads here the context is pretty obvious most of the time. My point is the word isn't owned by people with disorders. Paleo hacks shouldnt have to overly define every word just because extremists may twist it to suit their extreme needs.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 18, 2013
at 03:35 PM

So you do understand. You just think that the definitions of words should change because people shouldn't own them and you're a big kid you can say whatever you want. You sure can, and others will call you wrong. Thanks for playing!

753e23a7aca6ad0d84f996bf64dfa79c

(-4)

on April 17, 2013
at 12:17 AM

Haha, so what you don't binge. Looks like someone is a bit defensive. Everyone can binge. Heck you can binge on a carton of strawberries and its hardly unhealthy. What your suggesting is neutering the discussion, people on here shouldn't have to qualify what they say just because there are people with disorders who tend to take things the wrong way.

753e23a7aca6ad0d84f996bf64dfa79c

(-4)

on April 17, 2013
at 11:18 PM

The main point is reasonable people understand what kind of binging is healthy and which is not. People with eating disorders are not reasonable, and will always look for a way to justify their addiction.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 18, 2013
at 01:21 AM

The point is that BINGING is not healthy mentally, even if the foods eaten at each binge do not cause physical side effects. Go look up the true definition of binge/binging/binge eating and you will see that it isn't just eating more than a person needs on occasion. The word is misused often as just meaning to overeat, and that is my point. Misuse of a word leads to confusion. No one can stop you from using the term binge very loosely and out of context, but your freedom to do so doesn't make it accurate.

0
81feb1022a28f534867616b9316c7aa4

on April 08, 2013
at 02:50 AM

Actually in my opinion, I think that these sites are good for someone who is sensible and has episoides of binging. Actually I used to have ab big problem with binge eating disorder a few years or so ago. In the time I was binging on an almost daily basis. I read self-help books, I went to a psychologist, I talked to my mother, I talked to my doctor I tried this, I tried that. And it took me a while to figure out what worked for me, and I think it is a great thing that you can come to a site like this where the majority of people seem pretty healthy and can get advice from others who have been in the same situation. I realize there is also posts by young (mainly girls) which sound as though they are developing and eating disorder, and to be honest I don't think these girls/boys will listen to anything anyone has to say. These people at the most extreme may need help, but otherwise I think the only way to develop a healthy relationship with food is trial and error and figuring things out for themselves, advice from others will sometimes be listened to, sometimes not. I was given advice at 17 by a sportsman who was worried I was becomming to thin, and at the height of my eating disorder I thought what he was telling me was crazy and he just wanted to make me fat etc.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 08, 2013
at 03:32 AM

To summarize, my point was that eating disorders should be discussed and recognized for what they are. They should not be trivialized by people who do not have them jokingly or carelessly using ED terminology or normalized by people who do have them implying that binging or other disordered eating patterns are healthy.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 08, 2013
at 03:28 AM

I really appreciate you taking the time to post, but I think you misunderstood both what I actually said and my intent. Please go back in carefully reread my post and the responses from others, because I don't want you or anyone else to feel that people with eating disorders are not welcome here or that it is a subject that should not be discussed.

0
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 07, 2013
at 08:07 PM

spending too much time greming me thinks, need to get to swallowing

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 07, 2013
at 09:30 PM

All I'm saying is that with all of the lovely things one could do for another, why would you ever choose to grem?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 07, 2013
at 09:56 PM

Sounds like you should gen up on the act of gobbing or greming

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 07, 2013
at 09:31 PM

It's nasty and leaves a mess to clean up

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 07, 2013
at 10:01 PM

Sounds like you should gen up on the Art of Trolling. They probably have a remedial course at your juvenile delinquency school.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 07, 2013
at 09:44 PM

Even Urban Dictionary doesn't have a satisfactory definition for that word...

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on April 07, 2013
at 08:46 PM

Say whaaaaa?

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