2

votes

Is it possible kill fat cells and end up with accidental autophagy after bodywork?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created March 08, 2012 at 6:28 AM

I just had my 3rd session with a myofascial therapist, and the first two times I was less hungry the next day, but thought it was random.

Today, hardly any appetite at all, three times seems less coincidental.

Several ideas I've had about it today:

  1. It might be possible to wring out fat cells. (Edit wringing out is probably the wrong word here, damaging or popping the fat cells so that the contents can be used for sustenance is more of what I was getting at. Kind of like the selective damage caused by cold therapy.)
  2. Perhaps there is a detox effect and my digestion wants to rest while I deal with any bad stuff that was released.
  3. Better body mechanics means I don't have to work as hard to move my body.

Any thoughts?

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on March 09, 2012
at 10:40 AM

Yup, I've only seen autophagy referred to absorption of broken proteins and the initiation of the death of marginal cells/mitochondria, never of fat cells, nor removal of fat from fat cells.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on March 09, 2012
at 05:10 AM

I think I've got a few to spare. So, if some get squished and gobbled up by my system I'm not worried. I tried to go the shrink/wring angle but that didn't jive with some of the other answerers, so I tried to rephrase the question, and "kill" seem like the other possibility.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on March 09, 2012
at 04:36 AM

It is a pretty darn painful treatment, lots of ripping through twisted muscle fibers, and pushing really hard on my layer of blubber to get to those muscles.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on March 09, 2012
at 12:43 AM

@Happy Now, it would only be autophagy if the emptied fat cells were broken down and recycled into other tissues. Emptying them wouldn't cause that, and anything that would damage them enough to cause autophagy would also cause pain and inflammation, I assume.

F4d04667059bc682540fdfd8b40f13a7

on March 08, 2012
at 11:30 PM

Hadn't heard about massage as an ED treatment Camila, very interesting - does it work as a distraction, or is there more at play?

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on March 08, 2012
at 11:11 PM

I was basing my definition on LC literature, something along these lines. "Certain diets utilize a form of autophagia. The Atkins Diet relies heavily on ketosis as a method of reducing body fat, which, in itself, could be considered a form of cellular autophagia."

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on March 08, 2012
at 10:57 PM

That happens--in fact, I think it was Chris Masterjohn who said cells can be storing and releasing fats simultaneously. But that's not autophagy (I don't think.)

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on March 08, 2012
at 10:41 PM

Maybe I've misunderstood the concept. I was under the impression that is was sort of like the tide, lipids flowing in and out of fat cells as needed, packed away after eating until needed and released in the absence of food to maintain homeostasis.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on March 08, 2012
at 08:57 PM

2 and 3 were really add-on thoughts in case 1 was not possible. Perhaps autophagy in the true sense of lipids moving out of the adipose tissue of their own accord isn't quite the right word, but if you were to apply a ton of pressure to a pile of fat cells, like an elbow pushed really hard into the glutes isn't it possible some of the fat cells would "pop" or be damaged enough to release the lipids within.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on March 08, 2012
at 08:51 PM

I have jumped to no conclusions, I am just pondering publicly.

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6 Answers

3
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 08, 2012
at 04:40 PM

I believe you are just digesting/absorbing your food better. Also lowered stress (mind and body) is freeing up some extra cortisol to keep blood sugar levels up. Great one-two punch.Happens to me all the time after good body work.

2
96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on March 08, 2012
at 10:18 PM

My understanding of autophagy doesn't mesh with your question; maybe I've misunderstood something.

I think autophagy is the natural recycling of proteins by the body, occurring during sleep. Damaged or defective proteins are broken down and re-used for repair.

I've read quite a bit about fasting, calorie restriction and/or "protein fasting" as ways of encouraging autophagy but I'm not aware of a role in the emptying of fat cells.

??

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on March 08, 2012
at 10:41 PM

Maybe I've misunderstood the concept. I was under the impression that is was sort of like the tide, lipids flowing in and out of fat cells as needed, packed away after eating until needed and released in the absence of food to maintain homeostasis.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on March 08, 2012
at 10:57 PM

That happens--in fact, I think it was Chris Masterjohn who said cells can be storing and releasing fats simultaneously. But that's not autophagy (I don't think.)

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on March 08, 2012
at 11:11 PM

I was basing my definition on LC literature, something along these lines. "Certain diets utilize a form of autophagia. The Atkins Diet relies heavily on ketosis as a method of reducing body fat, which, in itself, could be considered a form of cellular autophagia."

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on March 09, 2012
at 12:43 AM

@Happy Now, it would only be autophagy if the emptied fat cells were broken down and recycled into other tissues. Emptying them wouldn't cause that, and anything that would damage them enough to cause autophagy would also cause pain and inflammation, I assume.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on March 09, 2012
at 04:36 AM

It is a pretty darn painful treatment, lots of ripping through twisted muscle fibers, and pushing really hard on my layer of blubber to get to those muscles.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on March 09, 2012
at 10:40 AM

Yup, I've only seen autophagy referred to absorption of broken proteins and the initiation of the death of marginal cells/mitochondria, never of fat cells, nor removal of fat from fat cells.

2
C26942a79fbd94cf7c383c596c847d06

(213)

on March 08, 2012
at 03:10 PM

Well...as a massage therapist who likes to do myofascial, I think these are all valid ideas. Also, better alignment/body mechanics connects all the visceral tissue and digestive system to function optimally. Perhaps you were never really as hungry as you thought you were. Or, your body just needed the relaxation. I rarely get massaged myself (true of the therapy world!) because of time/money/energy/pickiness...but I know when I do, it's kind of like an addiction that stops me from thinking about food (I am also eating disordered).

I have sought massage for treatment for the ED I have lived more than half my life with, and it helps with appetite because my thoughts are re-channeled. I think everyone is unique in their mind/body connection, so your own true answer is what you make it to be. Just accept it, and in turn, figure out how to use it.

Are you trying to lose weight? Is your food/appetite relationship normal? If you're one of those people that eats intuitively already and do not have food obsession/hang ups, then perhaps you're just running a detox, which always nauseate me. Keep up the liquids and flush it out. (any sort of juices/vinegars with a lot of water/electrolytes added). Otherwise, explore this connection and how it makes you feel...your true answer is your own.

F4d04667059bc682540fdfd8b40f13a7

on March 08, 2012
at 11:30 PM

Hadn't heard about massage as an ED treatment Camila, very interesting - does it work as a distraction, or is there more at play?

1
5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on March 08, 2012
at 06:10 PM

Logically speaking, I don't see where you're coming from autophagy-wise. Can you clarify what you're thinking?

1) Wring out fat cells - No. 2) Detox effect - plausible, but would not affect autophagy. 3) Better Body Mechanics - Not measurable. Would not affect autophagy.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on March 08, 2012
at 08:57 PM

2 and 3 were really add-on thoughts in case 1 was not possible. Perhaps autophagy in the true sense of lipids moving out of the adipose tissue of their own accord isn't quite the right word, but if you were to apply a ton of pressure to a pile of fat cells, like an elbow pushed really hard into the glutes isn't it possible some of the fat cells would "pop" or be damaged enough to release the lipids within.

0
C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on March 09, 2012
at 04:46 AM

Kill fat cells? That doesn't sound good. From what I understand fat cells create leptin. Maybe shrink is technically accurate.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on March 09, 2012
at 05:10 AM

I think I've got a few to spare. So, if some get squished and gobbled up by my system I'm not worried. I tried to go the shrink/wring angle but that didn't jive with some of the other answerers, so I tried to rephrase the question, and "kill" seem like the other possibility.

0
88bb9eb6f19e42cbccde8adf6debab75

on March 08, 2012
at 04:25 PM

Why do people jump to those conclusions all the time, did you personally measure your tissues?

there is no detox effect and the most likely explanation is just your mood/stress levels.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on March 08, 2012
at 08:51 PM

I have jumped to no conclusions, I am just pondering publicly.

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