7

votes

Why don't antibiotics give die-off reactions?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created February 18, 2013 at 4:24 AM

I've taken antibiotics before and other then diarrhea they don't have die off reactions when they are killing tons of bacteria in your system. With other treatments like juice fasting, oregano oils, msm they have caused "toxic die-off" symptoms like wanting sugar, brain fog, irritability, etc.?

Anyone got any idea on why?

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

@Paul, yes, let's all die of easily treatable bacterial infections!

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on February 19, 2013
at 01:38 AM

100% correct. die offs are very rare.

089dd41b18fbb95ebb5347cded708d98

(5635)

on February 18, 2013
at 10:42 PM

i'm sure it is from vancomycin, too. I get hives from most drugs I take. I just don't have a choice with this one. c diff is TERRIBLE.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12672)

on February 18, 2013
at 10:31 PM

I think general disruption of gut bacteria is a more likely cause of antibiotic induced diarrhea.

A5127d60bca783084f191f38ffa357a6

(687)

on February 18, 2013
at 10:22 PM

Hmm then I'm not sure what explained my diarrhea, which is usually caused by your body eliminating bacteria if it was just being stopped from growing.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12672)

on February 18, 2013
at 08:58 PM

Texas210, azithromycin is generally considered bacteriostatic, like sulfonimides, so this doesn't surprise me. It inhibits their growth, rather than killing them off all at once.

A5127d60bca783084f191f38ffa357a6

(687)

on February 18, 2013
at 08:42 PM

And VB I'm right there with you I have tons of methane producing bacteria I feel like, look for my next post "Is animal science ahead of human in some aspects"

A5127d60bca783084f191f38ffa357a6

(687)

on February 18, 2013
at 08:41 PM

Actually my antibiotic was Azithromycin which is " more effective against certain Gram-negative bacteria" and had no die off reactions.

7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on February 18, 2013
at 08:39 PM

This sounds like a reaction to the vancomycin, not a die-off reaction. I got hives once from some older antibiotic that was apparently a 'sulfa' drug. I am not sure whether or not vancomycin is in this category, but the wikipedia page suggests there can be bad side effects, and that there are newer antibiotics out there that people are using instead of it.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on February 18, 2013
at 07:35 PM

@Paul, yes that's why life expectancy has basically doubled with modern medicine -- because a healthy lifestyle treats bacterial infections. Also the American Indians had piss poor diets, that's why the introduction of bacteria from Europe almost wiped them out, their diets...

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12672)

on February 18, 2013
at 07:29 PM

Metronidizole is pretty complicated, I think it works several different ways but I don't know. And methane producing bacteria are also pretty numerous, so I don't know if that alone is enough to go on. Sorry VB.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on February 18, 2013
at 07:23 PM

These are preventable and treatable through a healthy lifestyle alone and do not necessitate the risks associated with antibiotics.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on February 18, 2013
at 06:43 PM

What about metronidazole? Also, can you recommend some good antibiotic that will kill methane-producing bacteria so they will never live again?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on February 18, 2013
at 04:45 AM

I've also taken Doxycycline. I suppose the real "die-off reaction" is the five years of issues with constipation, acid-reflux, depression (several suicide attempts), insomnia and anxiety as a result of trillions of healthy gut flora dieing off. NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER take antibiotics!!!

3327924660b1e2f8f8fc4ca27fedf2b2

(2919)

on February 18, 2013
at 04:41 AM

They do. I took Doxycycline before and lost 8 pounds in the first week due to profuse diarrhea and had constant headaches, very little appetite, and my acne (the reason I took the Doxy) increased drastically.

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on February 18, 2013
at 04:31 AM

Great question!

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5 Answers

6
A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12672)

on February 18, 2013
at 08:53 AM

I would assume it depends in part on the antibiotic. Not all antibiotics are going in and killing all the bacteria at once. Sulfonimides, for example, inhibit bacterial production of folate and essentially prevent them from reproducing. So they die off at the same rate as they have been, but they aren't replicating they're eventually in manageable numbers. Tetracyclines work in a similar way. Beta lactamase antibiotics for example do directly kill of bacteria, but are (typically) more deadly to gram positive bacteria, which generally speaking have cell walls that are less toxic to get into your system than bacteria of the gram negative variety. From my reading some of the popular natural antibiotics like the oils and whatnot are more deadly to the gram negative bacteria, which thanks in part to their lipopolysaccharide cell walls, hemolysins, and heat stable toxins, can cause some negative effects when killed off (characteristics of the Herxheimer reaction).

So those are some thoughts, but I will say that traditional antibiotics can cause die-off reactions and things like juice fasts can and probably are often making people feel like crap for reasons other than die-off.

A5127d60bca783084f191f38ffa357a6

(687)

on February 18, 2013
at 08:42 PM

And VB I'm right there with you I have tons of methane producing bacteria I feel like, look for my next post "Is animal science ahead of human in some aspects"

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on February 18, 2013
at 06:43 PM

What about metronidazole? Also, can you recommend some good antibiotic that will kill methane-producing bacteria so they will never live again?

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12672)

on February 18, 2013
at 10:31 PM

I think general disruption of gut bacteria is a more likely cause of antibiotic induced diarrhea.

A5127d60bca783084f191f38ffa357a6

(687)

on February 18, 2013
at 08:41 PM

Actually my antibiotic was Azithromycin which is " more effective against certain Gram-negative bacteria" and had no die off reactions.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12672)

on February 18, 2013
at 07:29 PM

Metronidizole is pretty complicated, I think it works several different ways but I don't know. And methane producing bacteria are also pretty numerous, so I don't know if that alone is enough to go on. Sorry VB.

A5127d60bca783084f191f38ffa357a6

(687)

on February 18, 2013
at 10:22 PM

Hmm then I'm not sure what explained my diarrhea, which is usually caused by your body eliminating bacteria if it was just being stopped from growing.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12672)

on February 18, 2013
at 08:58 PM

Texas210, azithromycin is generally considered bacteriostatic, like sulfonimides, so this doesn't surprise me. It inhibits their growth, rather than killing them off all at once.

1
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on February 18, 2013
at 10:35 PM

Because "die-offs" aren't that common and tons of symptoms get ascribed to die-off when they really shouldn't.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on February 19, 2013
at 01:38 AM

100% correct. die offs are very rare.

1
3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on February 18, 2013
at 07:18 PM

Some antibiotics attach bacteria cell walls weakening the bacteria and allowing the body to kill off the bacteria.

Some antibiotics basically prevent the reproduction of new bacteria which allows the body to kill off the bad bacteria.

But it is important to note that antibiotics do not just kill all bacteria. They are targeted to attack a specific kind of bacteria in a specific area of the body. Intestinal bacteria, an ear infection, and skin infection all necessitate different types of antibiotics.

Broad spectrum antibiotics, like Amoxicillin, do exist and are useful when the specific strain of bacteria cannot be identified.

But your doctor creates (or should) a specific dosage for the type of bacteria and your general health (as well as body weight) to ensure that the antibiotics are hampering the bad bacteria and doing as little harm as possible to the good bacteria.

What is interesting about your question is that the "die off reaction" is actually called the Herxheimer reaction and was coined to describe the reaction of the body to broad spectrum antibiotics for severely inflamed patients. So to suggest that antibiotics do no give a die-off effect is a hat-tip to modern medicine in that doctors are not over-prescribing medication AND are treating illnesses before they get out of control.

0
089dd41b18fbb95ebb5347cded708d98

(5635)

on February 18, 2013
at 08:29 PM

I am on vancomycin right now and my main die off reaction is hives from things that never bothered me before. I cant pet any of my animals right now without breaking out in hives. In the hospital, I had to wrap saran wrap around my IV site to shower and got hives all over that. Just weird things. I figure it's the c-diff dying in my body and the toxins coming through my skin.

7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on February 18, 2013
at 08:39 PM

This sounds like a reaction to the vancomycin, not a die-off reaction. I got hives once from some older antibiotic that was apparently a 'sulfa' drug. I am not sure whether or not vancomycin is in this category, but the wikipedia page suggests there can be bad side effects, and that there are newer antibiotics out there that people are using instead of it.

089dd41b18fbb95ebb5347cded708d98

(5635)

on February 18, 2013
at 10:42 PM

i'm sure it is from vancomycin, too. I get hives from most drugs I take. I just don't have a choice with this one. c diff is TERRIBLE.

0
F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on February 18, 2013
at 07:19 AM

I have never had a die-off reaction from antibiotics either. Not sure why. Looking forward to answers.

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