0

votes

Dealing with carbs like dealing with addiction.

Answered on December 27, 2013
Created December 22, 2013 at 7:50 PM

So I grew up on carbohydrates, cheap simple carbohydrates. Bread, frosted flakes, candy, pasta, pizza, you name it, it was probably on my top list of favorite foods. Over the paste few years, I have reevaluated my relationship to food. First was the documentary "Fat Head", which lead me to read the book "Good Carbs, Bad Carbs," from there I read more Primal Blueprint, then Primal Connection, then "Primal Body, Primal Mind." It all makes sense, and I am totally on the boat, but I have realized in the past 6 months to a year that I have a very large stumbling block, and I'm wondering if other people have the same.

When I try to eat paleo/primal, it is satisfying, but not completely gratifying, and does not address what seems like a fundamental problem of addicts, namely psychological ideation. The process of sitting around, not completely knowing what you will eat, and starting to think about how good carbs will taste, or what they will feel like, or how good you have done recently and how you can cheat just this once.

I have read people say that if you stay on the paleo primal thing long enough, this is not an issue. The longest I've stayed on it has been 3 months straight, and I still fell off. I honestly believe that carbohydrates are a drug more difficult to break than any drug that currently exists, and this is normally due to several confounding factors, such as social acceptance, availability, cost, taste, etc.

In the end, I'm not sure what my question is. Can anyone shed any insight on this? Does anyone have this same issue, that it seems like no matter how long you go, you only lose a nominal amount of weight, and you still suffer with ideation and internalized social pressure to eat carbohydrates? And if you do, and have successfully overcome it, how did you do it?

I am currently overweight by a fair margin, and my desire is to get to a normal weight range through a scientifically sound diet that will yield more benefits than simple weight loss. I have seemingly failed to achieve this with paleo/primal, not because it is scientifically unsound, but because it seems to fail to address this extreme psychological hurdle.

Does anyone have any insights on this issue?

Medium avatar

(10611)

on December 27, 2013
at 05:46 PM

Here's a primer on flavor pathway (umami):

Medium avatar

on December 27, 2013
at 04:07 PM

Eww, "blood chemistry couldn't possibly have anything to do with dietary needs" nonsense?

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on December 27, 2013
at 03:59 PM

They're zero carb out of necessary rather than choice.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on December 27, 2013
at 03:05 PM

If you consider diabetics, Atkins and other ketosis dieters to be cultures unaru is right. I can't think of any normal cultures that would not eat carbs when they are available.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on December 27, 2013
at 02:58 PM

The physiological responses - hunger signaling related to ghrelin and leptin - make more sense than the opioid argument. I still hold for a flavor effect on overeating, but don't consider it opioid.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on December 27, 2013
at 02:46 PM

No demonization, just realizing that for some folks, sugar produces neurochemical changes very much akin to addiction. Fat may also cause these effects but it is seemingly less common (soda "addiction" is much more common than heavy cream "addiction"). Certainly I do not argue that sugar affects all folks in the same manner. The overwhelming majority of folks can consume carbohydrate without issue.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on December 27, 2013
at 02:43 PM

True there are few cultures that significantly limit carbohydrate to near zero quantities, but few also consuming large amounts (define this?) of carbohydrate. The median diet is roughly equal in fat/carbohydrate (30/50% to 50/30%) with a smaller fraction of protein (~20%).

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on December 27, 2013
at 02:39 PM

Eww, bloodtype diet nonsense?

2eb1b3e896624be5506029e3fec3e9e2

(10)

on December 27, 2013
at 01:40 AM

it doesn't look like he's thinking straight. calling a macronutrient addictive based on a vague definition of a drug that doesn't imply addiction. in that case, sunlight and jogging are addictions.

2eb1b3e896624be5506029e3fec3e9e2

(10)

on December 27, 2013
at 01:35 AM

im guessing there are very few. the vast majority of the world population consumes carbs in large amounts

496b59d051b85dfe21f8ee40109f3a0b

(0)

on December 27, 2013
at 12:46 AM

How do you reconcile that there are entire cultures that do not consume carbohydrates?

Medium avatar

(10611)

on December 26, 2013
at 07:17 PM

+1 for calling out quixotic reasoning. Cervantes describes Quixote as a man whose brain had been shriveled by reading too much romantic fiction....

Medium avatar

(10611)

on December 26, 2013
at 07:10 PM

Our ancestors ate anything they could digest to survive. Our problem is food superabundance, and restricting to eat only the best is a good strategy to avoid overconsumption.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on December 26, 2013
at 07:00 PM

Most of the time we eat mixed foods, not pure fats or pure carbs. Demonizing a macronutrient is useful as a crash diet strategy sometimes. It's not the way people live their lives though. Demonizing carbs - or fats - is just a crutch for an inactive lifestyle. The difference between us and Grok is cities, cars, computers, ipods, and drive-throughs. Demonizing motorized transportation had a bigger benefit for my obesity, systolic blood pressure and HDL than demonizing any food.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on December 26, 2013
at 06:51 PM

Carb restriction was essential for me to get rid of diabetes, but it took a combination of caloric restriction and activity to get rid of my obesity. Maybe I live in an unrealistic imaginary place, but the scale doesn't agree. 50 lbs of fat are gone. My work is sedentary too, and it takes determination to escape the neolithic trap. I've walked 50 blocks on Broadway in 12 inches of snow at 5 AM. I've done stuff like that for the last 7 years, and consider it a pale imitation of what our ancestors did daily.

Medium avatar

(15)

on December 26, 2013
at 06:36 PM

It makes absolutely no sense to demonize a single food group. Celebrating fats but demonizing carbs. And vice versa.

Medium avatar

(15)

on December 26, 2013
at 06:32 PM

Then let me be more precise: You dismiss entire food groups.

Medium avatar

(15)

on December 26, 2013
at 06:30 PM

Open your eyes. Take some time and read paleo webforums or palohacks carefully. Heck, even the mark sisson webforums.

Medium avatar

(15)

on December 26, 2013
at 06:28 PM

The point is people love carbs and sugar because they supply energy. Things that supply energy elicit reward signals, simply because this is the fundamental biological mechanism that supports their repeated consumption. Fats are not different. They elicit very similar pleasant effects on the body and can be equally "addictive", to speak in your language. Just because something is rewarding does not mean it is "addictive". And just because some people have an eating disorder does not mean an entire foodgroup have inherent "addictive properties".

Medium avatar

(15)

on December 26, 2013
at 06:20 PM

I'm even sadder to see the mental gymnastics that you employ to bend reality in your erroneous dogma.

Let me help you out with wikipedia: "A drug is a substance which may have medicinal, intoxicating, performance enhancing or other effects when taken or put into a human body or the body of another animal and is not considered a food or exclusively a food."

Calling food drugs is a pretty weird view on biology. Are all living organisms drug addicts?

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on December 26, 2013
at 06:18 PM

Yes, and your point is? Can carbs/sugar have drug-like qualities? Yes. Could it then be "treated" as an addiction? Most certainly! I'd argue though that it's excess simple sugars that acts in a drug-like fashion. Starch, not so much. Fiber, not at all.

549f97e31a5313ab871983a5904ea31b

on December 26, 2013
at 06:16 PM

Also, carbohydrate is not a food group.

549f97e31a5313ab871983a5904ea31b

on December 26, 2013
at 06:16 PM

I'm sorry, which people exactly?

Medium avatar

(15)

on December 26, 2013
at 06:14 PM

I'm not dismissing anything. You in contrast dismiss an entire food group and don't even realize the damage that causes to many people.

549f97e31a5313ab871983a5904ea31b

on December 26, 2013
at 06:02 PM

Additionally, you cannot simply define psychological ideation during a FULL state as "hunger." Feel free to be an asshole and come on to a forum where people have actual issues, and dismiss them as if you are the be all and end all of nutritional/neurological/health advisors if that makes you feel better, but I guess that just makes you the requisite noise to be expected on the internet. Had you actually paid attention to the comments, that the advice people actually gave has made a difference in my life. But I guess that'd be asking too much.

549f97e31a5313ab871983a5904ea31b

on December 26, 2013
at 05:53 PM

drug

  1. 1.
    a medicine or other substance which has a physiological effect when ingested or otherwise introduced into the body.
I'm sad I have to google definitions for you.

Medium avatar

(15)

on December 26, 2013
at 05:52 PM

So have fats and protein and other nutrients. You are giving a non-argument.

Medium avatar

(15)

on December 26, 2013
at 05:49 PM

Ridicously false. Ever heard about glycosylated proteins? Mucins? The effect of fats and carbohydrates on thyroid function and stress hormones? Free fatty acids?

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on December 26, 2013
at 05:48 PM

You have to concede there are non-nutritive effects of food though.

Medium avatar

(15)

on December 26, 2013
at 05:44 PM

Sound advice.

Medium avatar

(15)

on December 26, 2013
at 05:43 PM

Carbohydrates are food. What theqabalist calls addiction, is called hunger. I'm sad that I have to point these simple facts out.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on December 26, 2013
at 05:39 PM

Dietary consumption of carbohydrate might not be essential. But glucose is so essential that our body will produce it at the expense of protein/lean mass to survive.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on December 26, 2013
at 05:37 PM

What is a "drug"? A substance that causes an non-nutritive effect in the body? For some folks, sugar may very well have drug-like properties. I'm not going to say it's toxic, nor is it the equivalent of crack, but it does cause biochemical effects in the body and for some, neurochemical effects.

Medium avatar

(15)

on December 26, 2013
at 04:54 PM

I agree with thhq. I fell sorry for theqabalist and his low-carb confusionism. Maybe one day he'll evolve from this ill-thinking.

549f97e31a5313ab871983a5904ea31b

on December 26, 2013
at 04:21 PM

I don't really need your pity. I'm well aware that my job as a software engineer inherently predisposes me to certain difficulties when it comes to health. I could quit and become a construction worker simply on the point of having an "active lifestyle" but unfortunately, life isn't as simple as that. Hence why I am on here asking people for honest, realistic advice rather than your "insights" which seem dismissive and oversimplifying.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on December 26, 2013
at 03:51 PM

If you can't get outside 2-3 hours a day I feel sorry for you. You're in a neolithic trap.

549f97e31a5313ab871983a5904ea31b

on December 26, 2013
at 03:34 PM

Your opinion is contradicted by scientific inquiry. So it's not that I don't like it, it's that I don't think it is valid in any objective sense. Also, I realize the importance of sunlight, very much so, but it is currently winter. When I go to work it is semi-dark, and when I come home, the sun is setting. The only time I could really get out and be active during sunlight hours would be during lunch, which is a difficult task in and of itself.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on December 26, 2013
at 03:25 PM

If you don't like my opinion fine. But think about spending a few hours outside every day anyway. I lost a lot more weight being active than I did wonking the macros.

549f97e31a5313ab871983a5904ea31b

on December 26, 2013
at 03:18 PM

I do not think your statement is accurate. Protein is REQUIRED by the body to reconstruct damaged tissue. Fat is required, above just protein, to do many things, like insulate the neurons in your brain when it is developing. The only thing not required is carbohydrates. And as specifically blood sugar spikes create a chemical formula for neurological addiction, I don't think you can argue that anything is addicting just for flavor. It's much deeper than a flavor issue. It is very similar to opioid addiction, but much more complex chemically.

549f97e31a5313ab871983a5904ea31b

on December 26, 2013
at 02:43 PM

So I wanted to just comment and let you know that I looked into your suggestion about the 4-hour body. Lol, I caught shit from my friend when I brought it up though because evidently he had recommended it like 7 months ago and I just wasn't paying attention. I am, along with dragonfly's comments on supplementation, following the slo-carb prescription fairly successfully at this point, as well as the cold therapy things from the book. All in all, I feel like I am a bit more in control of things, so I wanted to thank you for your suggestion.

549f97e31a5313ab871983a5904ea31b

on December 26, 2013
at 02:41 PM

Additionally, I have struggled with ADD, and in my research of Adderall, I have found that magnesium can block calcium channel receptors in the brain, thus reducing risk of addiction. Also, due to this mechanism, magnesium has been successfully used to help addicts recover because during withdrawal, the body seems to excessively use up magnesium. This and the carb binges I would go on probably meant that I was Mg deficient. Also, it's winter, and I have a 9-5 job now, so sun exposure has been harder. Vitamin D seems to have also moderated my mood to a great extent.

549f97e31a5313ab871983a5904ea31b

on December 26, 2013
at 02:39 PM

So, I pursuant to a few changes I have made in light of the discussion on this thread, I would say that yes, probably there was a deficiency of some kind. I have never known if supplements truly did anything, but I can attest that the one time I lost 50 pounds in like 6 months, I was very diligent about supplementation, as well as sun exposure (vitamin D), and it was fairly easy.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on December 26, 2013
at 02:37 AM

So glad the supplements helped!

549f97e31a5313ab871983a5904ea31b

on December 26, 2013
at 01:53 AM

I wanted to add to this that since this posting, I have tried to add supplemental vitamin d and magnesium in addition to being more diligent about taking my multivitamin, and it has drastically seemed to reduce all manner of addiction side effects with regards to carb. It's seemed to give me fairly decent impulse control over all of the issues I was having.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on December 23, 2013
at 02:53 PM

For sure, Fred. I finally had a taste of keto-euphoria recently. Better than the woozy opiod hit of gluten or buzzy sugar-high.

4610451431ec7155c87a5698be682a95

(1122)

on December 23, 2013
at 06:19 AM

I guess the psychological aspect is personal. I don't physically crave carbs, but my brain tells me to gobble them up for the particular euphoria they provide. I suppose it's a chicken/egg situation. Is it the brain telling us to gobble sugar or is it our body? Either way keto with high fat certainly blunts the cravings.

F291857fa12a0291688ea994343156dc

(720)

on December 23, 2013
at 02:09 AM

Maybe you didn't eat enough? :) My wife & I went out to dinner with some friends My wife has been no refined carbs (I'll have the salmon & spinach) since early 2007 & the other couple was "no wheat". It was a Saturday (a cheat day) so I ate two baskets of the cutest little multi-colored breads / dinner rolls.... oh, did feel like crap the next day. It's been a while since I read all those crab addcition articles.. maybe there's something in there?

549f97e31a5313ab871983a5904ea31b

on December 23, 2013
at 01:46 AM

That's the sort of thing that I'm missing though, is like the Pavlovian response. I have the memories of how it felt, but I don't get a bad gut reaction to it for whatever reason. It won't develop. I have even had people be like "remember how you felt," and I do...but I can only remember being miserable, not the actual misery itself. Perhaps I could use some other pavlovian training method to steer me away from carbs, lol, rather than trying to deal with it head on.

F291857fa12a0291688ea994343156dc

(720)

on December 23, 2013
at 01:42 AM

Interesting... for me, the feeling awful hugely outweighs and "tastes good" thoughts or feelings. For me it's like "Ouch! That hot stove really hurt!" and I'm less & less interested in the bad stuff. Every time I think of eating a jelly donut or coffee cake, etc... I instantly get a bad feeling in my stomach. If you have "tasty thoughts" then I can see how it's hard to break the cycle. :(

F291857fa12a0291688ea994343156dc

(720)

on December 23, 2013
at 01:37 AM

The 4 Hour Body technique encompasses "cheat days" not cheat meals. According to "the plan / the technique" you can eat whatever you want, in any quantity but only on that one day.....no other cheats. Cheat day can be a binge. His theory is... we all succumb on occasion & he builds in that allowance. A few times I did crazy cheat days....I ate crap until I nearly burst. Cheat day was Saturday... I didn't feel good again until ~ Monday noon. I don't suffer from carb addiction so YMMV. cheers

549f97e31a5313ab871983a5904ea31b

on December 23, 2013
at 01:09 AM

I have tracked my food before. In fact, I've tracked it so much that I can normally gauge from just sight how much I am about to eat. While I will continue to try things, I don't see how I will get past this particular hump. I have read tons, and it charges me a little bit at first, but then it fades away with time. I try to stay away from cheat meals because I don't find not eating demotivating, and they turn into binges anyway. I just feel compelled to eat carbs at times, and that's where honestly the only help would be distraction. Distraction is sometimes hard to come by.

549f97e31a5313ab871983a5904ea31b

on December 23, 2013
at 01:02 AM

Concerning your comment about aversion therapy, I certainly do normally feel like shit after I eat stuff, and generally in two ways. First is generally the insulin spike and response which makes me just want to go to sleep for like 4 hours, or sit around and feel ridiculously loopy. Once that's worn off, I generally have mild to moderate feelings of dehydration like waking up crusty, and feeling tired all day. Despite these things, it never fails that I begin to think about how good carbs taste, or something else, and begin to ideate, which typically leads to indulging again.

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13 Answers

best answer

0
Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on December 23, 2013
at 03:16 AM

I don't think carb addiction is mostly psychological. Magnesium and Vitamin D supplementation have helped me a lot with glucose control and over time have helped me reduce my carb addiction. But after 3 years of Primal eating, I have to say that going keto (for me, that's under 40 carbs/day, moderate protein, HIGH fat) has made the biggest difference. I also don't eat many veggies (I eat organ meats for micronutrients), so my gut flora is more like that of a carnivore and there is evidence that fiber-loving gut flora can influence us to eat more carbs:

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/search/label/Fiaf%20%282%29%20starving%20amidst%20plenty

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on December 23, 2013
at 02:53 PM

For sure, Fred. I finally had a taste of keto-euphoria recently. Better than the woozy opiod hit of gluten or buzzy sugar-high.

549f97e31a5313ab871983a5904ea31b

on December 26, 2013
at 01:53 AM

I wanted to add to this that since this posting, I have tried to add supplemental vitamin d and magnesium in addition to being more diligent about taking my multivitamin, and it has drastically seemed to reduce all manner of addiction side effects with regards to carb. It's seemed to give me fairly decent impulse control over all of the issues I was having.

4610451431ec7155c87a5698be682a95

(1122)

on December 23, 2013
at 06:19 AM

I guess the psychological aspect is personal. I don't physically crave carbs, but my brain tells me to gobble them up for the particular euphoria they provide. I suppose it's a chicken/egg situation. Is it the brain telling us to gobble sugar or is it our body? Either way keto with high fat certainly blunts the cravings.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on December 26, 2013
at 02:37 AM

So glad the supplements helped!

0
Medium avatar

(10611)

on December 27, 2013
at 05:50 PM

I can't enter a link in a comment, but here's a primer on how flavor pathways work. It's for umami, but anything that tastes good would probably be similar.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/18827336/

0
8c0695bb3ec45bc5cab7cb0744d6f1de

on December 27, 2013
at 02:22 PM

I personally have struggled with this for years, and I completely understand the feeling of addiction. I'm allergic to wheat and yet it has been nearly impossible for me to stop ingesting it. It is partly psychological and partly physiological. If I'm eating refined carbs, it is DEFINITELY physiological. I set myself up on a blood sugar cycle that causes intense hunger and cravings for quick energy... so I eat more carbs... blood sugar spikes, then crashes... return to intense hunger and cravings and on and on it goes. It is a difficult cycle to break and I've only been able to do so by flooding my body with nutrients. If I'm trying to get off the wheat and starchy carbs, I start juicing greens and lower sugar fruits and just try to put as much "good" stuff into my body as possible and it works like a charm! Supplementing with L-Glutamine also helps.

One of the hardest things to combat is that while eating Paleo/Primal/Low Carb, you never get that super full, carb-belly feeling after a meal. While it can be uncomfortable, so many of us grew up thinking that you are suppose to feel that way after a good meal. It is warm and comforting in a way... and an idea that is very difficult to let go. Just realizing that, that is the feeling you are missing and trying to adjust your expectations of a meal may help.

For more Paleo Diet hacks: http://paleohacks.com/questions/506870/dealing-with-carbs-like-dealing-with-addiction.html#ixzz2ogWOvyZP Follow us: @PaleoHacks on Twitter | PaleoHacks on Facebook

Medium avatar

(10611)

on December 27, 2013
at 05:46 PM

Here's a primer on flavor pathway (umami):

Medium avatar

(10611)

on December 27, 2013
at 02:58 PM

The physiological responses - hunger signaling related to ghrelin and leptin - make more sense than the opioid argument. I still hold for a flavor effect on overeating, but don't consider it opioid.

0
Medium avatar

on December 26, 2013
at 06:57 PM

Something that may help with carb cravings, which I use to great success is this: Yes, restrict carbs if you can, but take certain types of carbs and cross them off you list for good. Then let yourself have some of the good carbs. I am healthier and stronger every time I trade a doughnut for a yam, or white bread for Ezekiel bread. I don't think too many people will argue that an apple will be better for you than a scoop of ice cream.

I am an A+ blood type, and starches and sugars taste very sweet to me. I crave them. I would bet that you're an A+ blood type as well. I don't think I can ever be "carb free" but I can stay "carb better". I have permanently traded wheat and corn for quinoa. If I need to sweeten something, I will reach for dates, or even honey, before ever going to refined sugar.

Hopefully that can help with your cravings.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on December 26, 2013
at 07:10 PM

Our ancestors ate anything they could digest to survive. Our problem is food superabundance, and restricting to eat only the best is a good strategy to avoid overconsumption.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on December 27, 2013
at 02:39 PM

Eww, bloodtype diet nonsense?

0
4610451431ec7155c87a5698be682a95

(1122)

on December 26, 2013
at 06:56 PM

I think this statement is half true. We often eat out of boredom, not insatiable hunger. And hyper palatable food like cheese and bacon are too easy to overeat for some.

However, thinking there are no bad carbs is magical thinking.

0
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on December 26, 2013
at 05:47 PM

Carbs are not the enemy, excess carbohydrate is. There's no need to go from a frosted flake cereal diet straight to a ketogenic diet. There is a healthy median! Your typical SAD carbohydrate level is maybe 40% by calorie (SAD is high in both fat and carbs). If you "healthy up" your diet, you can push that to 60%. Dropping carbohydrate to 30% (150-180 grams of carbohydrate daily) already is a significant reduction in carbohydrate, requiring a fairly drastic dietary change. Ketogenic levels (<50 grams carbohydrate daily) is extreme and rarely necessary.

0
Medium avatar

on December 26, 2013
at 04:52 PM

If you really think that carbohydrates are a drug, your thinking is seriously messed up, most likely by reading the biased works and blog articles that have been linked above.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on December 26, 2013
at 05:37 PM

What is a "drug"? A substance that causes an non-nutritive effect in the body? For some folks, sugar may very well have drug-like properties. I'm not going to say it's toxic, nor is it the equivalent of crack, but it does cause biochemical effects in the body and for some, neurochemical effects.

496b59d051b85dfe21f8ee40109f3a0b

(0)

on December 27, 2013
at 12:46 AM

How do you reconcile that there are entire cultures that do not consume carbohydrates?

Medium avatar

(15)

on December 26, 2013
at 05:43 PM

Carbohydrates are food. What theqabalist calls addiction, is called hunger. I'm sad that I have to point these simple facts out.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on December 26, 2013
at 07:17 PM

+1 for calling out quixotic reasoning. Cervantes describes Quixote as a man whose brain had been shriveled by reading too much romantic fiction....

0
Medium avatar

(10611)

on December 26, 2013
at 03:05 PM

I do not believe that the overweight problem is related to any macronutrient. Cheese and bacon (salt/fat/protein) are as addicting as cookies and chips (salt/fat/carbs). If there's anything addicting it's related to a sense of reward coming from good flavors.

I think that behavior plays a major role. We do not eat as paleos did to survive, but eat out of boredom. Combined with modern sedentary behavior this is a recipe for obesity.

More and more I'm convinced that there are no bad carbs or fats so long as they're metabolized. Sitting at a computer all day is the problem. It drops metabolism to a sleeping level.

Medium avatar

(15)

on December 26, 2013
at 04:54 PM

I agree with thhq. I fell sorry for theqabalist and his low-carb confusionism. Maybe one day he'll evolve from this ill-thinking.

549f97e31a5313ab871983a5904ea31b

on December 26, 2013
at 03:18 PM

I do not think your statement is accurate. Protein is REQUIRED by the body to reconstruct damaged tissue. Fat is required, above just protein, to do many things, like insulate the neurons in your brain when it is developing. The only thing not required is carbohydrates. And as specifically blood sugar spikes create a chemical formula for neurological addiction, I don't think you can argue that anything is addicting just for flavor. It's much deeper than a flavor issue. It is very similar to opioid addiction, but much more complex chemically.

0
5d0a23aefb2876433cc0e0679f714826

on December 26, 2013
at 09:49 AM

It is difficult to answer your question without knowing what you are eating. Do you think that the anxiety stems from a deficiency?. For example, many paleo folks argue for magnesium supplements, which make you feel more relaxed.

http://paleodietlifestyle.com/magnesium/

549f97e31a5313ab871983a5904ea31b

on December 26, 2013
at 02:41 PM

Additionally, I have struggled with ADD, and in my research of Adderall, I have found that magnesium can block calcium channel receptors in the brain, thus reducing risk of addiction. Also, due to this mechanism, magnesium has been successfully used to help addicts recover because during withdrawal, the body seems to excessively use up magnesium. This and the carb binges I would go on probably meant that I was Mg deficient. Also, it's winter, and I have a 9-5 job now, so sun exposure has been harder. Vitamin D seems to have also moderated my mood to a great extent.

549f97e31a5313ab871983a5904ea31b

on December 26, 2013
at 02:39 PM

So, I pursuant to a few changes I have made in light of the discussion on this thread, I would say that yes, probably there was a deficiency of some kind. I have never known if supplements truly did anything, but I can attest that the one time I lost 50 pounds in like 6 months, I was very diligent about supplementation, as well as sun exposure (vitamin D), and it was fairly easy.

0
Be803dcde63e3cf5e21cc121097b8158

on December 23, 2013
at 01:45 PM

Maybe your carb cravings should actually be satiated.

A book that covers this topic is called Perfect Health Diet.

If you've already failed at low-carb, you might want to consider a different approach to doing Paleo.

Good luck!

Medium avatar

(15)

on December 26, 2013
at 05:44 PM

Sound advice.

0
4610451431ec7155c87a5698be682a95

(1122)

on December 23, 2013
at 01:04 AM

I think many of us are carb addicts, whether we succumb or not depends on a host of factors. It really is psychological in nature, so I treat it as such. I follow mostly keto blogs, websites and forums to help myself stay true in the sea of carbs. esp. here in the grainbelt.

http://www.eatlowcarbhighfat.com/?p=10

http://www.dietdoctor.com/

http://itsthewooo.blogspot.com/search/label/Ketogenic%20Diet%20Tips

http://www.gnolls.org/

Anyway, these are just a few that help me "stay the course".

Like what samc said, it's a matter of try and try gain. I would not recommend built in cheat meals as these can turn into binges. I would also recommend tracking your food on free website like cronometer.

Best of luck to you

549f97e31a5313ab871983a5904ea31b

on December 23, 2013
at 01:09 AM

I have tracked my food before. In fact, I've tracked it so much that I can normally gauge from just sight how much I am about to eat. While I will continue to try things, I don't see how I will get past this particular hump. I have read tons, and it charges me a little bit at first, but then it fades away with time. I try to stay away from cheat meals because I don't find not eating demotivating, and they turn into binges anyway. I just feel compelled to eat carbs at times, and that's where honestly the only help would be distraction. Distraction is sometimes hard to come by.

0
F291857fa12a0291688ea994343156dc

(720)

on December 23, 2013
at 12:29 AM

I would recommend a couple more resources not exactly paleo but I used the techniques in the books to drop weight as a did slow unintentional transition to paleo.

The Blood Sugar Solution & The 4 Hour Body. I also read & used (use Mark Sisson's stuff).

I don't think I was ever addicted to carbs but I enjoyed (or so I thought) them. A night time snack of Grapenuts with milk & maple syrup. Ice cream with grapenuts & honey....you get the picture. Summer of 2012 I was 220...by Jan 2013 I was 190. The great thing about The 4 Hour Body... he builds into his system a weekly "cheat day". By the time I had moved from Blood Sugar Solution to The 4 Hour Body I had eliminated bread, pasta, sugar, fruit juice, potatoes. Doing The 4 Hour Body I looked forward to the cheat days...I'd write down the stuff I was going to eat.

But after a several weeks of The 4 Hour Body, the cheat days made feel like crap, so I stopped doing them. I was also down 20lbs despite Thanksgiving & Xmas holidays.

I think aversion therapy had been done on me. The stuff I used to like, makes me feel crappy, so I every time I think of eating that kind of stuff, I remember how bad it made me feel last time AND I think about how much better I feel & look at 190.

Here's another resource, the personal blog of a young (40 ish) MD who changed his diet to lose fat and improve his health. Links to his personal blog... a bit geeky (he's an engineer turned MD & an accomplished amateur athlete) but the stuff he posts is back by science & self-experimentation

http://eatingacademy.com/dr-peter-attia

http://eatingacademy.com/my-personal-nutrition-journey

Here are some articles I found for a friend who has issues overeating carbs, sweets, sugar, even sweet fruits :(

Looks like there was a previous similar thread on PH

Wisconsin Study Links Carbohydrate Overeating to Opiate Reaction

http://www.med.wisc.edu/news-events/wisconsin-study-links-carbohydrate-overeating-and-reaction-to-opiates/30723

Carb Addiction: Cake Is The New Crack http://robbwolf.com/2012/02/15/carb-addiction-cake-is-the-new-crack/

Crazy for carbs! http://paleohacks.com/questions/185531/crazy-for-carbs#ixzz2NyLfq7nB

How Carbohydrate Addiction Happens http://charm.cs.uiuc.edu/users/jyelon/lowcarb.med/topic7.html

good luck

549f97e31a5313ab871983a5904ea31b

on December 23, 2013
at 01:02 AM

Concerning your comment about aversion therapy, I certainly do normally feel like shit after I eat stuff, and generally in two ways. First is generally the insulin spike and response which makes me just want to go to sleep for like 4 hours, or sit around and feel ridiculously loopy. Once that's worn off, I generally have mild to moderate feelings of dehydration like waking up crusty, and feeling tired all day. Despite these things, it never fails that I begin to think about how good carbs taste, or something else, and begin to ideate, which typically leads to indulging again.

549f97e31a5313ab871983a5904ea31b

on December 26, 2013
at 02:43 PM

So I wanted to just comment and let you know that I looked into your suggestion about the 4-hour body. Lol, I caught shit from my friend when I brought it up though because evidently he had recommended it like 7 months ago and I just wasn't paying attention. I am, along with dragonfly's comments on supplementation, following the slo-carb prescription fairly successfully at this point, as well as the cold therapy things from the book. All in all, I feel like I am a bit more in control of things, so I wanted to thank you for your suggestion.

0
Medium avatar

(238)

on December 22, 2013
at 09:46 PM

It took me until my 56th year on this planet to finally decide to lose the carbs. In my case they certainly were addicting. I could ditch them for short periods of time but always came back in some form or another. In the last two years I've had zero grains, alcohol and only minor amounts of added sugar in the form of honey or dates in cooked foods for a touch of sweetness if needed.

You just have to decide that it is best for your health and get on with it. Even if you fail, keep trying and eventually it can be done. In my case the constant battles with sinus issues wore me down, now I'm free of the sinus problems and 70lbs of unwanted fat.

btw - the more people push food/carbs on me the less likely I was to eat them. Take a look at the pusher, do they seem to be in perfect health with a great body? Usually not.

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