1

votes

Will you still want me if I'm a pedantic food nazi?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created November 11, 2011 at 8:34 PM

Please hack my email to a new friend who's healthy eating habits include tons of sugar and seed oils.

We never had a chance to talk about that casserole. It sounded mostly fantastic, but you mentioned using sesame oil and that's what I got hung up on. And then we moved on to more important, wildly fantastic activities, and I never got to explain myself. Talking about this stuff in general is far less interesting than the aforementioned activities, so I'll forsake any long speeches in favor of enjoying our time together, free of my pedantic ramble; that said, you're 70 miles away from me, and I'm lonely for you, and I want you to understand some of the background of where I'm coming from. I'm also incapable of doing any real work, it seems, on this lonely Friday afternoon.

So, that said...here???s an article about diet that I mostly agree with: "Feast Like a Caveman and Watch the Pounds Melt Away" (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/11/11/paleo-goes-mainstream-cbs-news-reports.aspx?np=true) I could care less about weight loss at this point???it???s all about having lots of energy. And not dying.

Here???s my one request for you personally???give up all seed oils (???vegetable oils???) for a month (yes that includes your sesame oil, canola oil, safflower???etc. etc.). Keep the olive oil. Replace with animal fats (ghee is nice, or butter) or coconut oil. Your skin will be luminous and clear. It will not give you heart disease. In fact, as the article points out, a diet rich in animal fats improves blood lipid profiles. This is actually well known and is not seriously disputed among scientists. Scientists, however, were never on the team when we created the original four food groups and subsequent food pyramid, MyPyramid, etc. I???ve been moving in this direction for four years and my total cholesterol has dropped from the low 200s to 160. HDL (???good cholesterol???) increased from low 40s to high 60s (this is considered very good). Blood pressure went from ???hypertensive??? to ???pretty fucking awesome.??? Pulse rate went down from 100 to 60-something bpm. Based on my own personal journey, I have come to question every piece of prevailing wisdom???and not just because of the celiac/soy allergy issue. I have found, through self-testing, that there is only one correct conventional dietary truth out there???you are what you eat.

One final note, and I realize you have more important things to do than read a bunch of shit that may or may not be crazy talk, but you REALLY need to read this article about the history of how this ungodly social experiment in diet evolved and took its current form: "What if It's All Been a Big Fat Lie?" (http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/07/magazine/what-if-it-s-all-been-a-big-fat-lie.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm) In eliminating the seed oils, you???ll find that the stuff you use to saut?? is the least of your worries???99% of processed and restaurant foods are FULL of seed oils. We???ve systematically eliminated healthy animal fats from the industrial food supply. There is a good reason for this: seed oils are produced for pennies and sold for dollars. Hugely profitable. But if you can run your car on it, it is decidedly NOT food. (Willie Nelson runs his tour bus on biodiesel, which is literally recycled ???vegetable oil??? from restaurant fryers???)*

I go on to some wildly inventive sex talk from there, so I'll spare you.

So is this a good place to start? I'm going after the seed oils because she expressed concern over an acne breakout and I'm fairly convinced that it's a seed oil thing.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on November 12, 2011
at 02:26 AM

Good job! Hope she's open to hear more.

531db50c958cf4d5605ee0c5ae8a57be

(8878)

on November 12, 2011
at 02:21 AM

Oops. Went ahead and did it. I agree that it's a manifesto worthy of Kaczynski and should have sent her fleeing and I should not have sent it. But I kind of knew she'd go for it.

531db50c958cf4d5605ee0c5ae8a57be

(8878)

on November 12, 2011
at 02:18 AM

Adriana, that's a way better story than my email. We connected through an old college friend. Emailed a hundred times and spoke on the phone. And, yes, then went straight to sex. Well, there was wine, too. We've been together a couple weeks and have just never got around to eating.

531db50c958cf4d5605ee0c5ae8a57be

(8878)

on November 12, 2011
at 02:15 AM

As I posted in comments above, she totally got it. She agreed that seed oils are worthless and she has no innate fear of butter. A good girl she is. She wants to keep her coffee with sugar and milk. And you know, I just don't give a shit.

531db50c958cf4d5605ee0c5ae8a57be

(8878)

on November 12, 2011
at 02:12 AM

In spite of the advice, I sent the email and she's fine with giving up seed oils, except for restaurant food. Crisis averted. By the way, if you think THIS email was long, you should read the one titled, "Five Things I'm Going to Do to You Tomorrow." That one was like War and Peace compared to this thing.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on November 12, 2011
at 01:19 AM

Have fun, play safe, and try not to be disappointed if she doesn't follow your advice after the novelty of going seed oil free wears off. If she's as into you as it would seem, she'll gaze at you with those eyes no matter what words come out of your mouth. You guys seem to be quite fond of each other, and I'd hate to see diet come between you.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on November 12, 2011
at 01:16 AM

NOT romantic. Hint: When she complains about something, she's not asking you to fix, just listen.

D117467bf8e8472464ece2b81509606c

(2873)

on November 12, 2011
at 12:35 AM

Pearls of wisdom: how pretty sounding.

E167c0387a5f0b87bb1f2c3e6aec73a8

(1240)

on November 12, 2011
at 12:20 AM

lol sorry, didn't know how to put it more "kindly" (this is not my language and all) but i guess you got the concept, good luck :)

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on November 11, 2011
at 11:57 PM

I mean this is stuff you could talk to her about over like the next six months....I wouldn't blow my load all in one e-mail :).

6b8d12fc3e43179f9ae1765a4d1a9dc2

(5914)

on November 11, 2011
at 11:32 PM

The NY Times article is a really good read.

2b2c2e4aa87e9aa4c99cae48e980f70d

(1059)

on November 11, 2011
at 10:51 PM

You skipped the meals and jumped right to sex? Wow, things have changed!

2b2c2e4aa87e9aa4c99cae48e980f70d

(1059)

on November 11, 2011
at 10:47 PM

Way too long and just "preachy" enough to weird somebody out early in a relationship. Send her the original Taubes article and tell her you can discuss her thoughts after she reads it. Don't talk about her skin, she'll view it as a criticism.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on November 11, 2011
at 10:38 PM

tl;dr, please just post the lurid sex talk next time

F1b39d4f620876330312f4925bd51900

(4090)

on November 11, 2011
at 10:33 PM

Is she worried about heart disease and health? Or does she simply use sesame oil for the taste. It might be a simple fix if that is the case. I also think that the inclusion of "you are what you eat" was kind of mean. She is eating seeds, which sounds pretty good. There are worse things to be compared to ;)

F1b39d4f620876330312f4925bd51900

(4090)

on November 11, 2011
at 10:29 PM

Maybe add a bunch of links at the bottom for further reading??

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on November 11, 2011
at 10:04 PM

So that was your intro to the bedroom talk? Not for nothing, but I'm interested in the segue....

531db50c958cf4d5605ee0c5ae8a57be

(8878)

on November 11, 2011
at 10:00 PM

I upvoted you in spite of the insipid "crazy talking bs" line. Cause I'm in love.

531db50c958cf4d5605ee0c5ae8a57be

(8878)

on November 11, 2011
at 09:59 PM

We've never shared a meal together. And she adores me and listens to everything with beautiful adoring eyes. So, yeah, I get it. But romance isn't the problem. And I wouldn't be so confident that this topic will fall on deaf ears--at least in her case. She is literally one in a million. And I've dated hundreds...

531db50c958cf4d5605ee0c5ae8a57be

(8878)

on November 11, 2011
at 09:56 PM

Wow we are so negative around here. (Not just you.) I, too, have had all the usual failures in this relationship-with-non-paleo regard, but this one is different.

7d64d3988de1b0e493aacf37843c5596

(2861)

on November 11, 2011
at 09:22 PM

You have to catch them in the right frame of mind. Like a recent health scare. My wife got back the blood work results they do each year at work as part of the wellness program, and they basically said “go see your doctor”. She started copying most of meals after that.

13a44ea00b0c9af0b6d0f3d5f5c2cfca

(7223)

on November 11, 2011
at 09:12 PM

@Katherine: According to Sisson it is less problematic because of high antioxidant levels. It's still not something to use frequently.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on November 11, 2011
at 09:05 PM

+100. It is hard enough to share this kind of advice with loved ones, even harder with friends and friends' friends. Preaching is preaching no matter what your dogma, and it is usually annoying.

B124653b19ee9dd438710a38954ed4a3

(1634)

on November 11, 2011
at 09:04 PM

That email is too long. Find a way to shorten it if you want the recipient to read it all and take action.

531db50c958cf4d5605ee0c5ae8a57be

(8878)

on November 11, 2011
at 09:00 PM

She likes to be told what to do. (I have not experienced this before.) So she may be atypical.

531db50c958cf4d5605ee0c5ae8a57be

(8878)

on November 11, 2011
at 08:58 PM

Good points. I'm wildly optimistic in this case.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

(4764)

on November 11, 2011
at 08:58 PM

Sesame has the same problematic profile as the rest of the seed oils. The reason it occasionally gets a pass is because it's often used in tiny amounts for flavoring only. It's nearly 50% pufa. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooking_oil

7d64d3988de1b0e493aacf37843c5596

(2861)

on November 11, 2011
at 08:57 PM

I think in general seed oils might be a good place to start, but I think the Taubes article somewhat distracts from the focus since he really doesn't weigh in on the issue of seed oils; it could be even interpreted that all fats are good. If you want to present the idea that saturated fats are not bad, this post by Stephan was one that helped push me past the tipping point: http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/12/dirty-little-secret-of-diet-heart.html

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on November 11, 2011
at 08:51 PM

Weird. I can't seem to do any work on this lonely Friday, either.

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7 Answers

8
9747ae0ff20a8f4a4a2857c66820b125

(439)

on November 11, 2011
at 08:38 PM

As the girlfriend of a SAD eater who is very, very attached to his shitty diet (and gets very angry if I ever say anything about it, even when his health problems are obvious even to him)...I say good luck.

531db50c958cf4d5605ee0c5ae8a57be

(8878)

on November 11, 2011
at 09:00 PM

She likes to be told what to do. (I have not experienced this before.) So she may be atypical.

7d64d3988de1b0e493aacf37843c5596

(2861)

on November 11, 2011
at 09:22 PM

You have to catch them in the right frame of mind. Like a recent health scare. My wife got back the blood work results they do each year at work as part of the wellness program, and they basically said “go see your doctor”. She started copying most of meals after that.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on November 11, 2011
at 09:05 PM

+100. It is hard enough to share this kind of advice with loved ones, even harder with friends and friends' friends. Preaching is preaching no matter what your dogma, and it is usually annoying.

6
9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on November 12, 2011
at 12:31 AM

TLDR. It is too long and makes you sound preachy.

I'm more sneaky than you are I guess. No one has ever broken up with me and none of my relationships have ended because of food. I do think really unhealthy eating grates on me after awhile. So I do bring things up, but slowly and always by talking about it and not by sending emails. IMHO a guy who eats unhealthy is easier to deal with than a granola-eater who already has ideas about health, but unhealthy eaters can be resistant too. I wouldn't continue a relationship with someone resistant to learning more. Usually it comes up when we cook together and I buy ingredients. If he offers me some canola oil to use, I politely decline and say I really like lard/coconut oil because it tastes awesome (I don't say better) and it has some great unappreciated health qualities (I don't say canola is bad). Then I start saying how eating things like that has improved my health. Eventually the canola oil is displaced.

If I encountered sesame oil I would say that I just don't cook with it because chemically, the fats are too delicate, but sometimes I use it as salad dressing or in marinades.

So ditch the email and start chatting in the kitchen.

6
6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on November 11, 2011
at 09:31 PM

Pearls of wisdom--YES! (Use them sparingly though)

Sharing how well you feel on said diet-YES! (After many, many dates or if asked)

Sermon plus homework-NOT ROMANTIC!

Even though I agree 100% with you in theory, I personally would delete your number from my phone because I would envision a future of having someone policing every bite of food that went into my mouth. Controlling behavior, no matter how well intentioned is not affection.

I also fear you have crossed another social etiquette line here too, no matter what the ingredients you should have thanked her for the meal and left it at that.

It is however okay to cook for her and casually chat about why you chose the ingredients you did.

It is also okay when dining out together to ask the waiter about ingredients for what you are ordering (not what she is ordering) so as to open the conversation without being critical of her food choices.

531db50c958cf4d5605ee0c5ae8a57be

(8878)

on November 11, 2011
at 09:59 PM

We've never shared a meal together. And she adores me and listens to everything with beautiful adoring eyes. So, yeah, I get it. But romance isn't the problem. And I wouldn't be so confident that this topic will fall on deaf ears--at least in her case. She is literally one in a million. And I've dated hundreds...

2b2c2e4aa87e9aa4c99cae48e980f70d

(1059)

on November 11, 2011
at 10:51 PM

You skipped the meals and jumped right to sex? Wow, things have changed!

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on November 12, 2011
at 01:19 AM

Have fun, play safe, and try not to be disappointed if she doesn't follow your advice after the novelty of going seed oil free wears off. If she's as into you as it would seem, she'll gaze at you with those eyes no matter what words come out of your mouth. You guys seem to be quite fond of each other, and I'd hate to see diet come between you.

531db50c958cf4d5605ee0c5ae8a57be

(8878)

on November 12, 2011
at 02:18 AM

Adriana, that's a way better story than my email. We connected through an old college friend. Emailed a hundred times and spoke on the phone. And, yes, then went straight to sex. Well, there was wine, too. We've been together a couple weeks and have just never got around to eating.

6
E167c0387a5f0b87bb1f2c3e6aec73a8

(1240)

on November 11, 2011
at 08:57 PM

I know your are mostly "right", but sorry ,from here ( im pretending to not know) your e-mail looks like the usual crazy talking BS. I assume she has been eating like crap for ages now, so take it easy with the optimal diet talking and don't try to change that all in a day. See how the relationship develops and then -if its worth it - gradually- drop a few pearls of wisdom here and there.

531db50c958cf4d5605ee0c5ae8a57be

(8878)

on November 11, 2011
at 10:00 PM

I upvoted you in spite of the insipid "crazy talking bs" line. Cause I'm in love.

D117467bf8e8472464ece2b81509606c

(2873)

on November 12, 2011
at 12:35 AM

Pearls of wisdom: how pretty sounding.

531db50c958cf4d5605ee0c5ae8a57be

(8878)

on November 12, 2011
at 02:15 AM

As I posted in comments above, she totally got it. She agreed that seed oils are worthless and she has no innate fear of butter. A good girl she is. She wants to keep her coffee with sugar and milk. And you know, I just don't give a shit.

E167c0387a5f0b87bb1f2c3e6aec73a8

(1240)

on November 12, 2011
at 12:20 AM

lol sorry, didn't know how to put it more "kindly" (this is not my language and all) but i guess you got the concept, good luck :)

6
13a44ea00b0c9af0b6d0f3d5f5c2cfca

(7223)

on November 11, 2011
at 08:41 PM

I'm not sure sesame oil would be the thing I would use as an "in" to this discussion--especially considering the frequent use of sesame oil in paleo recipe books. In fact, sesame oil (along with olive oil) is often excluded from the list of vegetable oils to avoid because, depending on how it is produced, it isn't particularly problematic--as compared to things like canola, soy, corn, and vegetable oils.

I think I would start with a discussion about sugar or grains or more obvious industrial seed oils.

Also, my standard disclaimer in posts like this: If your friend hasn't asked you for information, it may not be well received. No amount of information will change someone's mind if they aren't open to change at that time.

Edited to add links with examples: Robb Wolf, Mark Sisson, Sarah Fragoso, Make It Paleo

531db50c958cf4d5605ee0c5ae8a57be

(8878)

on November 11, 2011
at 08:58 PM

Good points. I'm wildly optimistic in this case.

13a44ea00b0c9af0b6d0f3d5f5c2cfca

(7223)

on November 11, 2011
at 09:12 PM

@Katherine: According to Sisson it is less problematic because of high antioxidant levels. It's still not something to use frequently.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

(4764)

on November 11, 2011
at 08:58 PM

Sesame has the same problematic profile as the rest of the seed oils. The reason it occasionally gets a pass is because it's often used in tiny amounts for flavoring only. It's nearly 50% pufa. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooking_oil

3
98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

on November 12, 2011
at 12:47 AM

Don't do it dude. You do sound like a food nazi and no I do not think she will still want you if you send that. This little message needs to come out over weeks maybe months not in a single email. Let the discussion unfold naturally. Don't try to change her. Talk about your own ideas and your own journey and if she's interested she's ask for information. Since acne is a concern send her something that speaks to that directly maybe?

Good luck!

531db50c958cf4d5605ee0c5ae8a57be

(8878)

on November 12, 2011
at 02:21 AM

Oops. Went ahead and did it. I agree that it's a manifesto worthy of Kaczynski and should have sent her fleeing and I should not have sent it. But I kind of knew she'd go for it.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on November 12, 2011
at 02:26 AM

Good job! Hope she's open to hear more.

2
Medium avatar

(2301)

on November 11, 2011
at 09:44 PM

find someone else to date. no one ever listens. sigh.

531db50c958cf4d5605ee0c5ae8a57be

(8878)

on November 11, 2011
at 09:56 PM

Wow we are so negative around here. (Not just you.) I, too, have had all the usual failures in this relationship-with-non-paleo regard, but this one is different.

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