1

votes

Is hormonally-patterned acne always hormonal?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created June 10, 2012 at 2:52 PM

I hate to ask another acne question, but I'm at the end of my rope! So I have what one would think is hormonal adult acne- I'm 24, have had moderate (to severe?) acne on my jawline and chin for...I can't even remember how long. About 9 months. I'm fairly certain that going Paleo 7 months ago worsened it.

I went off birth control about that same time, and got an IUD instead, but really my body ought to have adjusted by now, this is ridiculous. And I just went and got my hormones tested, and I'm apparently ship-shape.

Background: I have Hashimoto's, but its pretty under control- am on no medications, am quite closely adherent to the autoimmune version of Paleo- some fruit, very few nuts, some chocolate. No egg whites and almost no nightshades. Vitamin A and Omega-3 supplements make no difference, nor does vitamin D, B vitamins- a couple other things, supplement-wise, I've tried but have not found them effective after a couple of days and have quickly stopped, such as coconut oil, maca, evening primrose oil, jojoba oil, and liver support-thingies. My sleep and stress are fine, as is, surely, my Omega 3/6 ratio. Probiotics, even really good ones, and fermented foods have been tried.

I got nothin'. I presently take a multimineral with boron, vitamin D, vitamin C, and a probiotic. Sometimes K2. I just cannot imagine what's wrong with me! Thanks for any and all help!

UPDATE: So, my acne is almost entirely gone- I'm not tooootally sure why, but it seems to be for embarrassingly simple/mostly conventional reasons. I'm eating VLC, sleeping more than I ever have in my life (at least 8 hours on the reg), and washing my face more. I had been not washing it much in the name of Paleo/naturalism, and indeed could not tell that it had gotten any worse or better since I stopped washing it, but nonetheless since I started washing it twice a day its gotten significantly better.

I thought, maybe whatever was causing my acne healed itself, and now that I began washing my face again, it finally revealed the healing-ness. I still have a couple of imperfections, but nothing major.

318374167f4c3bf3ac0f13ce48211c75

(106)

on August 17, 2012
at 03:28 PM

i meant olive oils. they have a poor omega 3: 6 ratio and that's something I need to watch. but definitely internal too. stress will cause my face to breakout

Ffd72922a42e5f5c663d9a189229299f

(139)

on June 17, 2012
at 04:44 PM

Crowlover can you share the diet here? Wanna try it for my acne.

A39237551dac75eb36335098b0f5fa61

(525)

on June 14, 2012
at 04:19 AM

Good to hear that. 3 Days back I got my hands on a review paper on oxidative damage as a cause and antioxidants as treatment options for acne. Thought the studies are still preliminary, the results are very promising. I wrote a detailed post about the topic here: http://www.acneeinstein.com/inflammation-antioxidants-acne/ Maybe that helps you also.

Afdf5873a082cd806c4d15c456f3614f

(336)

on June 13, 2012
at 05:41 PM

Seriously, it works miracles. Fermented Cod/Butter Liver also is helpful in clearing acne since it offers VITD and VITA.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on June 13, 2012
at 06:31 AM

Thanks Seppo. I agree. For me, my acne improved from an overall change in diet, healing my leaky gut, and mostly I think from my high dose antioxidant supplement protocol to treat inflammation and oxidative stress (this was for my Hashimoto's primarily but also with a goal of reducing all inflammation) with the idea of helping my skin to handle hormones. All I can say is it has worked 95% but Im not willing to rely on diet alone. That's just me, not saying everybody will agree or want to swallow the amount of supplements I do everyday but my Hashi's is now "negative".

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on June 13, 2012
at 06:27 AM

Thanks Seppo - although for me, my acne improved from an overall change in diet, healing my leaky gut, and a is high dose antioxidant supplement protocol to treat inflammation and oxidative stress (this was for my Hashimoto's primarily but also with a goal of reducing all inflammation) with the idea of helping my skin to handle hormones. All I can say is it has worked 90% but Im not willing to rely on diet alone. That's just me, not saying everybody will agree or want to swallow the amount of supplements I do everyday but my Hashi's is now "negative"...

E29de61ebb59e6c03d790f0d21645664

(90)

on June 13, 2012
at 04:18 AM

Violet, I had been off of hormonal BC for 8 months before getting my IUD

A39237551dac75eb36335098b0f5fa61

(525)

on June 12, 2012
at 06:07 AM

@Crowlover, I'm not sure that diet can do anything to allow the skin to handle hormones better. That part is due to genetics. Diet can, however, alter sebum composition and possibly other factors relevant to acne. It's my view that diet should be used to lower insulin and IGF-1 levels. Because these act as sort of boosters to androgens. IGF-1 stimulates the release of androgens, and it also increases the effect they have on the skin. So it's a bit of both. Reduce and stabilize hormones AND help the skin to deal with them better.

E68bdbd83e45fd5be130e393ace9c9a9

(2063)

on June 12, 2012
at 03:26 AM

Lyndsie, were you on hormonal BC before you got the copper IUD?

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on June 11, 2012
at 03:56 PM

I LOVE my Clarisonic.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on June 11, 2012
at 03:56 PM

Seppo you have good advice. Inflammation is caused by oxidiative stress. I don't think you are saying this but I want to check - the goal of diet or whatever with Acne should not be to "lower" hormone levels, it should be to help the skin be able to handle a normal level of hormones. The skin system has the "problem" - the hormones themselves are not the problem.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on June 11, 2012
at 03:45 PM

Ok thanks. Sounds like they did test your level thyroid peroxidase antibodies (TpoAb)... purpose just didn't tell you. That is how Hashimoto's is diagnosed-by a high level of TpoAb. I personally have my TpoAb checked every six months as I feel its something important to follow (and Im fortunate that my doctor, an ND, agrees) and I have been a high antioxidant (and diet of course) protocol to lower my TpoAb. I was in fact able to get it down into the negative range of <35 (from a high of 345). It stayed "negative" for over a year. I hope you can improve yours too! Will diet alone do that?

A39237551dac75eb36335098b0f5fa61

(525)

on June 11, 2012
at 07:40 AM

So our job as acne patients is to try and track down the sources of inflammation and remove them. Anti-inflammatory topicals can also help.

A39237551dac75eb36335098b0f5fa61

(525)

on June 11, 2012
at 07:40 AM

As to other 5-alpha reductase inhibitors, saw palmetto, gamma linoleic acid (such as in evening primrose oil) and zinc are some examples. Regardless of the details, acne comes down to inflammation in the skin. This inflammation can be external (such as sunlight, air pollution, or using too harsh chemicals on your face) or internal (such as from gut problems, autoimmune diseases, eating foods you are allergic, etc)....

A39237551dac75eb36335098b0f5fa61

(525)

on June 11, 2012
at 07:39 AM

You said that topical green tea doesn't do much? I assume you've tried it? While it has not been widely studies, the studies we have are very promising. It's effectiveness in treating acne is comparable to benzoyl peroxide or antibiotic creams. It's been shown to reduce sebum production (because it inhibits the effect androgens have on the skin), and it's known to be anti-inflammatory. I wrote about green tea here: http://www.acneeinstein.com/green-tea-for-acne/ ...

A39237551dac75eb36335098b0f5fa61

(525)

on June 11, 2012
at 07:39 AM

You should talk to a doctor or some other health practitioner about getting inflammation levels checked. To my knowledge you can check for inflammatory markers, such as C reactive proteins (CRP) and cytokines, but you can get much better info from a doctor. To be continued...

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on June 11, 2012
at 07:14 AM

Oh, and I have taken, antioxidant-wise, turmeric supplements and milkthistle before, but both to no great effect. Does that mean my issue is NOT oxidation, or is that an idiotic conclusion?

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on June 11, 2012
at 07:10 AM

Crowlover, I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's a year and a half or two ago, so I'm just assuming I haven't recovered. Its not really something that's cured, ever, it seems- just comes and goes.

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on June 11, 2012
at 07:08 AM

Bleh. Thanks Lyndsie- this was happening before the IUD, though, so hopefully its not aggravating the situation. Good luck getting your tubes tied, I hope the post-BC recovery goes smoothly!

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on June 11, 2012
at 07:06 AM

Oh, and I've taken, antioxidant-wise, turmeric supplements and milkthistle before, but both to no great effect.

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on June 11, 2012
at 07:05 AM

Seppo, thanks so much, this is informative- I've never had my inflammation levels checked, how do I do that? I'm doing pretty much all I can to be anti-inflammatory, though, so I don't know what more I could do in any case! Green tea applied topically doesn't seem to do much, but my Google of topical 5-alpha reductase inhibitors is not productive for some reason. Topically, I use tea tree oil to remove makeup and wash, and apply some Clinique pigment-evening serum, and a Proactiv product generally.

36d3e4358916b55a2eb7feae99a47cf9

(10)

on June 11, 2012
at 12:01 AM

first, there are several acnes; second, acne is also link to a precise bacteria as well as hormone. stop trolling.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on June 10, 2012
at 11:17 PM

Celine why do you say that you have Hashimoto's? How do you know this if you have not had your Thyroid perioxidase (Tpo) antibodies checked? Yes my primary care practitioners are an ND and my PhD level nutritionist. I also have an MD, but don't need her much at at. And yes, oxidative stress plays a role in very single inflammatory process/disease including acne. CoQ10 in the form of Ubiquinol and R-La might help you.. in addition of course to a clean diet (which you are already doing)

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on June 10, 2012
at 11:12 PM

Its especially important for you to take Zinc Celine with your copper IUD. I am using Zinc and Molybdenum to lower the toxic level of copper from my IUD. I use a 100% Whole Foods Zinc from Innate Response and take the "max" dose of 120mg per day.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on June 10, 2012
at 11:06 PM

Celine why do you say that you have Hashimoto's? How do you know this? And yes, oxidative stress plays a role in very single inflammatory process/disease. CoQ10 in the form of Ubiquinol and R-La might help you .

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on June 10, 2012
at 11:03 PM

Celine I had a copper IUD for about 5 years and ended up with very very high levels of copper = not good. In retrospect I would not have used it.

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on June 10, 2012
at 09:58 PM

Also, Korion, sorry- did all those things help only in conjunction, or by themselves a bit as well? How much higher are we talking about with the sugar, as far as, say, teaspoons? I mean, I can definitely do high-sugar! And how long did it take you to see an improvement? I don't eat dairy, but bone broth doesn't seem to make an incredible difference.

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on June 10, 2012
at 09:55 PM

Negative with the dairy, God I only wish.

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on June 10, 2012
at 09:54 PM

Thanks Clayton! So, hold on, you notice that consuming a lot of oil makes you break out? My thought on the makeup is that if topical acne medication/oils, whatever, make no difference, it must be an internal thing rather than makeup or anything else. Am I wrong do you think?

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on June 10, 2012
at 09:51 PM

So I have no idea what my Tpo is, obviously!

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on June 10, 2012
at 09:51 PM

I don't get my Tpo tested ever, so I perhaps don't know. But I did get my thyroid checked when I got my hormonal test done, and I am not yet hypothyroid. I don't have too many certain Hashimoto's symptoms, though- I'm slenderish- 5 "7" and 140, and am not so low-energy that working out every day is a major issue. I get cold, and who knows, maybe my memory would be much better if I didn't have Hashimoto's, but all in all, its aight.

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on June 10, 2012
at 09:46 PM

Ooooh, fellow Hashimoto's person! Its a pleasure! I'm not gonna lie, I only found out what oxidative stress is through Google just now. Interesting, I may have to check this out when I go to America next! You go to a naturopath? Sun doesn't seem to make a difference, very unfortunately.

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on June 10, 2012
at 09:43 PM

Might be worth ordering in some zinc picolinate, in that case.

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on June 10, 2012
at 09:43 PM

Roth-thanks, very good points. So I don't eat dairy, except eggs or ghee. I have taken zinc, to no effect, but hadn't thought of its bioavailability/form (this was back early in my paleo-ness, I was so innocent! I just grabbed something from the drugstore). I don't eat liver because I live in Egypt and don't have a source that I trust. About the zinc- do you think just eating beef might be enough? I at least ought to be able to notice a slight slight improvement the day after eating tons of it, right?

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on June 10, 2012
at 09:37 PM

Korion, my carb consumption appears to make no difference! Honestly, as far as I can tell, the only thing that seems to have a visible effect is iodiny foods- for the worse. My IUD is copper, hormone-free, Crowlover. Roth- I've eaten a bit of liver, but the next day wasn't significantly better. It was only a tiny bit, but should have done it, no?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on June 10, 2012
at 09:01 PM

So I think it's another correlation ≠ causation thing.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on June 10, 2012
at 09:01 PM

*"All acne is hormonal because it's the hormones that even allow the formation of acne."* When I read Ray Peats take on acne, it looks like its more a question of metabolism : a higher metabolism increases steroid production, increasing the need for vitamin A. When you eat sugar, dairy, ... and thus raise your metabolism, your body needs more vitamin A for immune function to fight against the acne bacteria. Lots of us are deficient in vitamin A.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on June 10, 2012
at 08:59 PM

By the way Celine things that really really really helped clear up the acne on my chin (only acne that didn't want to go away on paleo) are vitamin D, calcium and a higher sugar intake. Much higher. Studies show that fructose protects against vitamin D deficiency in rats : http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1221903

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on June 10, 2012
at 07:54 PM

well No and Yes! You use less since you don't have to do all that "swirling, tapping and buffing" lol

318374167f4c3bf3ac0f13ce48211c75

(106)

on June 10, 2012
at 07:44 PM

is it any cheaper than Bare? LOL

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on June 10, 2012
at 06:25 PM

I used to use BareEscentuals, until I found the Skin Deep® Cosmetics Database (Environmental Working Group) website.They rates toxicity and safety of all body products and cosmetics. www.ewg.org/skindeep It a fabulous website and especially for anyone with skin problems. I switched to Rejuva Minerals products. Great stuff. I like better than Bare Escentuals or Jane Iredale.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on June 10, 2012
at 06:07 PM

Roth I fail to see how your all black or all white approach is helpful. If "all acne is hormonal" then why doesn't every single person have it? Clearly there is more at play. Also, I don't understand why you are making it personal. You know nothing about me at all. Further, you might benefit from learning more about oxidative stress since it is at play in every single inflammatory process or disease. I wish you well.

E68bdbd83e45fd5be130e393ace9c9a9

(2063)

on June 10, 2012
at 05:44 PM

I don't have any answer for you -- just wanted to say that I'm sorry 7 months of strict paleo hasn't helped you. I haven't been strict paleo for that long yet but it has also totally failed to make a difference in my skin. I hope you find some relief soon.

E68bdbd83e45fd5be130e393ace9c9a9

(2063)

on June 10, 2012
at 05:43 PM

Also it's somewhat meaningless to say that "all acne is genetic." I've known people who had beautiful perfect skin for a long time only to see it suddenly erupt in response to a change in lifestyle or even a period of emotional stress. Genes definitely predispose one to acne, but my guess is that acne could be induced in most people given the right conditions (stress, bad food, overly drying soap, comodogenic topicals, SIBO, etc.)

E68bdbd83e45fd5be130e393ace9c9a9

(2063)

on June 10, 2012
at 05:40 PM

I think it is too simplistic to say that all acne is hormonal. There is a hormonal component, sure, but it's much more complicated than that.

3327924660b1e2f8f8fc4ca27fedf2b2

(2919)

on June 10, 2012
at 05:38 PM

If you're taking a Vit A supplement, make sure it's not beta carotene. And take a low dose for extended periods of time (months) as opposed to megadosing for a few weeks. Liver is a better source of Vit A than supplements.

3327924660b1e2f8f8fc4ca27fedf2b2

(2919)

on June 10, 2012
at 05:37 PM

1. All acne is hormonal. 2. All acne is genetic. 3. All acne is inflammatory in nature. 4. All acne indicates improper/rushed keratinization. If those 4 things don't apply to your "acne" you don't have acne - you have folliculitis or some other skin issue which can be worsened by "mechanical" means such as physical irritation from shaving or rubbing skin.

3327924660b1e2f8f8fc4ca27fedf2b2

(2919)

on June 10, 2012
at 05:32 PM

Crowlover, you don't understand how hormones (or acne formation for that matter) work evidently. All acne is hormonal because it's the hormones that even allow the formation of acne. I've dealt with acne for years and I assure you, all acne is hormonal. And no, acne isn't an issue of "oxidative stress." That might be a contributing factor, but it's not the major contributing factor or even a significant one.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on June 10, 2012
at 05:19 PM

If all acne was hormonal then everybody would have it. Everyone has hormones, some peoples skin cant "handle" the amount of normal hormones..... The clinician who helped me with both my hormones and my acne says that its an oxidative stress issue. Those with acne have a high level of oxidative stress.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on June 10, 2012
at 05:17 PM

Does your IUD have hormones?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on June 10, 2012
at 03:56 PM

When you say vitamin A did nothing, what kind of vitamin A are you talking about? How much carbs are you eating?

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7 Answers

1
3327924660b1e2f8f8fc4ca27fedf2b2

(2919)

on June 10, 2012
at 03:12 PM

All acne is hormonal.

IUDs can cause issues as well. It's going to take more than a few months to completely fix health issues that took YEARS to develop. Do you eat liver regularly? How much fat are you consuming? Have you taken a highly bioavailable form of zinc (picolinate or methionine-bound zinc?) Do you avoid dairy? Dairy has pretty much been shown to cause acne in many people - even "good" dairy.

36d3e4358916b55a2eb7feae99a47cf9

(10)

on June 11, 2012
at 12:01 AM

first, there are several acnes; second, acne is also link to a precise bacteria as well as hormone. stop trolling.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on June 10, 2012
at 09:01 PM

*"All acne is hormonal because it's the hormones that even allow the formation of acne."* When I read Ray Peats take on acne, it looks like its more a question of metabolism : a higher metabolism increases steroid production, increasing the need for vitamin A. When you eat sugar, dairy, ... and thus raise your metabolism, your body needs more vitamin A for immune function to fight against the acne bacteria. Lots of us are deficient in vitamin A.

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on June 10, 2012
at 09:43 PM

Might be worth ordering in some zinc picolinate, in that case.

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on June 10, 2012
at 09:43 PM

Roth-thanks, very good points. So I don't eat dairy, except eggs or ghee. I have taken zinc, to no effect, but hadn't thought of its bioavailability/form (this was back early in my paleo-ness, I was so innocent! I just grabbed something from the drugstore). I don't eat liver because I live in Egypt and don't have a source that I trust. About the zinc- do you think just eating beef might be enough? I at least ought to be able to notice a slight slight improvement the day after eating tons of it, right?

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on June 10, 2012
at 06:07 PM

Roth I fail to see how your all black or all white approach is helpful. If "all acne is hormonal" then why doesn't every single person have it? Clearly there is more at play. Also, I don't understand why you are making it personal. You know nothing about me at all. Further, you might benefit from learning more about oxidative stress since it is at play in every single inflammatory process or disease. I wish you well.

E68bdbd83e45fd5be130e393ace9c9a9

(2063)

on June 10, 2012
at 05:43 PM

Also it's somewhat meaningless to say that "all acne is genetic." I've known people who had beautiful perfect skin for a long time only to see it suddenly erupt in response to a change in lifestyle or even a period of emotional stress. Genes definitely predispose one to acne, but my guess is that acne could be induced in most people given the right conditions (stress, bad food, overly drying soap, comodogenic topicals, SIBO, etc.)

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on June 10, 2012
at 09:01 PM

So I think it's another correlation ≠ causation thing.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on June 10, 2012
at 11:12 PM

Its especially important for you to take Zinc Celine with your copper IUD. I am using Zinc and Molybdenum to lower the toxic level of copper from my IUD. I use a 100% Whole Foods Zinc from Innate Response and take the "max" dose of 120mg per day.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on June 10, 2012
at 05:19 PM

If all acne was hormonal then everybody would have it. Everyone has hormones, some peoples skin cant "handle" the amount of normal hormones..... The clinician who helped me with both my hormones and my acne says that its an oxidative stress issue. Those with acne have a high level of oxidative stress.

E68bdbd83e45fd5be130e393ace9c9a9

(2063)

on June 10, 2012
at 05:40 PM

I think it is too simplistic to say that all acne is hormonal. There is a hormonal component, sure, but it's much more complicated than that.

3327924660b1e2f8f8fc4ca27fedf2b2

(2919)

on June 10, 2012
at 05:37 PM

1. All acne is hormonal. 2. All acne is genetic. 3. All acne is inflammatory in nature. 4. All acne indicates improper/rushed keratinization. If those 4 things don't apply to your "acne" you don't have acne - you have folliculitis or some other skin issue which can be worsened by "mechanical" means such as physical irritation from shaving or rubbing skin.

3327924660b1e2f8f8fc4ca27fedf2b2

(2919)

on June 10, 2012
at 05:32 PM

Crowlover, you don't understand how hormones (or acne formation for that matter) work evidently. All acne is hormonal because it's the hormones that even allow the formation of acne. I've dealt with acne for years and I assure you, all acne is hormonal. And no, acne isn't an issue of "oxidative stress." That might be a contributing factor, but it's not the major contributing factor or even a significant one.

0
A39237551dac75eb36335098b0f5fa61

(525)

on September 07, 2013
at 12:44 AM

It can take quite a while for a body to readjust after BC pills. I've read accounts for it taking more than a year.

All acne is hormonal to a degree. Acne-prone skin is far more sensitive to androgen hormones. Even in what's considered normal levels they cause excess sebum production, skin cell growth and overactivation of the immune system in the skin. Excessive sebum is prone to oxidation that then triggers the acne formation process.

So far there's nothing we can do to 'cure' the genetic component of acne. But you can mititgate the damage with topical 5-alpha reductase inhibitors. Green tea happens to be one. Google can tell you also others.

Diet has nothing to do to that component of acne. While diet helps in reducing hormones and systemic inflammation it's not enough for some people. They need to treat acne topically also.

What are you doing topically?

In your case Hajimoto's can make it harder to get clear. It's possible it inflammation and depleted antioxidant reserves. Have you had your inflammation levels checked?

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on June 11, 2012
at 07:05 AM

Seppo, thanks so much, this is informative- I've never had my inflammation levels checked, how do I do that? I'm doing pretty much all I can to be anti-inflammatory, though, so I don't know what more I could do in any case! Green tea applied topically doesn't seem to do much, but my Google of topical 5-alpha reductase inhibitors is not productive for some reason. Topically, I use tea tree oil to remove makeup and wash, and apply some Clinique pigment-evening serum, and a Proactiv product generally.

A39237551dac75eb36335098b0f5fa61

(525)

on June 11, 2012
at 07:39 AM

You should talk to a doctor or some other health practitioner about getting inflammation levels checked. To my knowledge you can check for inflammatory markers, such as C reactive proteins (CRP) and cytokines, but you can get much better info from a doctor. To be continued...

A39237551dac75eb36335098b0f5fa61

(525)

on June 11, 2012
at 07:40 AM

So our job as acne patients is to try and track down the sources of inflammation and remove them. Anti-inflammatory topicals can also help.

A39237551dac75eb36335098b0f5fa61

(525)

on June 11, 2012
at 07:40 AM

As to other 5-alpha reductase inhibitors, saw palmetto, gamma linoleic acid (such as in evening primrose oil) and zinc are some examples. Regardless of the details, acne comes down to inflammation in the skin. This inflammation can be external (such as sunlight, air pollution, or using too harsh chemicals on your face) or internal (such as from gut problems, autoimmune diseases, eating foods you are allergic, etc)....

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on June 11, 2012
at 03:56 PM

Seppo you have good advice. Inflammation is caused by oxidiative stress. I don't think you are saying this but I want to check - the goal of diet or whatever with Acne should not be to "lower" hormone levels, it should be to help the skin be able to handle a normal level of hormones. The skin system has the "problem" - the hormones themselves are not the problem.

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on June 11, 2012
at 07:14 AM

Oh, and I have taken, antioxidant-wise, turmeric supplements and milkthistle before, but both to no great effect. Does that mean my issue is NOT oxidation, or is that an idiotic conclusion?

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on June 11, 2012
at 07:06 AM

Oh, and I've taken, antioxidant-wise, turmeric supplements and milkthistle before, but both to no great effect.

A39237551dac75eb36335098b0f5fa61

(525)

on June 11, 2012
at 07:39 AM

You said that topical green tea doesn't do much? I assume you've tried it? While it has not been widely studies, the studies we have are very promising. It's effectiveness in treating acne is comparable to benzoyl peroxide or antibiotic creams. It's been shown to reduce sebum production (because it inhibits the effect androgens have on the skin), and it's known to be anti-inflammatory. I wrote about green tea here: http://www.acneeinstein.com/green-tea-for-acne/ ...

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on June 13, 2012
at 06:31 AM

Thanks Seppo. I agree. For me, my acne improved from an overall change in diet, healing my leaky gut, and mostly I think from my high dose antioxidant supplement protocol to treat inflammation and oxidative stress (this was for my Hashimoto's primarily but also with a goal of reducing all inflammation) with the idea of helping my skin to handle hormones. All I can say is it has worked 95% but Im not willing to rely on diet alone. That's just me, not saying everybody will agree or want to swallow the amount of supplements I do everyday but my Hashi's is now "negative".

A39237551dac75eb36335098b0f5fa61

(525)

on June 12, 2012
at 06:07 AM

@Crowlover, I'm not sure that diet can do anything to allow the skin to handle hormones better. That part is due to genetics. Diet can, however, alter sebum composition and possibly other factors relevant to acne. It's my view that diet should be used to lower insulin and IGF-1 levels. Because these act as sort of boosters to androgens. IGF-1 stimulates the release of androgens, and it also increases the effect they have on the skin. So it's a bit of both. Reduce and stabilize hormones AND help the skin to deal with them better.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on June 13, 2012
at 06:27 AM

Thanks Seppo - although for me, my acne improved from an overall change in diet, healing my leaky gut, and a is high dose antioxidant supplement protocol to treat inflammation and oxidative stress (this was for my Hashimoto's primarily but also with a goal of reducing all inflammation) with the idea of helping my skin to handle hormones. All I can say is it has worked 90% but Im not willing to rely on diet alone. That's just me, not saying everybody will agree or want to swallow the amount of supplements I do everyday but my Hashi's is now "negative"...

A39237551dac75eb36335098b0f5fa61

(525)

on June 14, 2012
at 04:19 AM

Good to hear that. 3 Days back I got my hands on a review paper on oxidative damage as a cause and antioxidants as treatment options for acne. Thought the studies are still preliminary, the results are very promising. I wrote a detailed post about the topic here: http://www.acneeinstein.com/inflammation-antioxidants-acne/ Maybe that helps you also.

Ffd72922a42e5f5c663d9a189229299f

(139)

on June 17, 2012
at 04:44 PM

Crowlover can you share the diet here? Wanna try it for my acne.

0
E45c5a1c8df73da5e03bb6e7e90f8420

(644)

on June 11, 2012
at 02:04 AM

Hi Celine- I have struggled with mild acne for years now- it is the kind where it isn't out of control but there is never a time that I don't have a zit on my face and they all leave red marks that last for ages.

I tried EVERYTHING I could think of aside from prescriptions-And I FINALLY found a routine that has literally transformed my skin- I wash my face twice a day using Clarisonic's Refreshing Gel Cleanser and use the Mia Face Brush http://www.clarisonic.com/?gclid=COXN48aKxbACFQ5rhwodmxlvng After cleansing I use Bare Escentuals Glow Pads and Mychelle pumpkin renew cream. My skin literally glows now and I haven't broken out in two months straight, not once, for the first time in years!

This would be an expensive routine to get started, but all I know is I've tried every face mask, every cleanser, every zit cream (organic and chemical), supplements, total body cleanses, no-sugar, gluten-free, dairy-free (paleo) with pretty much NO changes in my skin. Everyone is different but the Clarisonic Mia along with the purifying face wash has completely changed my skin. I look in the mirror and don't recognize myself! So it may work for you...Also, I think taking fish oil, turmeric, EPO, probiotics, and ginger are always helpful since they are anti-inflammatory and nourish the skin, I still take those all daily.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on June 11, 2012
at 03:56 PM

I LOVE my Clarisonic.

Afdf5873a082cd806c4d15c456f3614f

(336)

on June 13, 2012
at 05:41 PM

Seriously, it works miracles. Fermented Cod/Butter Liver also is helpful in clearing acne since it offers VITD and VITA.

0
E29de61ebb59e6c03d790f0d21645664

on June 11, 2012
at 01:26 AM

My copper IUD triggered acne in me when I had never had it before. I fought it out for over two years, and then just couldn't take it anymore and had it removed. (other reasons on top of the acne. It added 4 extra days to my period, I had cramps when I had never had them before, etc. etc.)

Dairy now causes my occasional breakout when I do indulge in something that contains it, but otherwise i'm pretty blemish free. I am currently on hormonal BC, but I am getting my tubes tied this coming friday, so we will see how being off the BC affects my skin.

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on June 11, 2012
at 07:08 AM

Bleh. Thanks Lyndsie- this was happening before the IUD, though, so hopefully its not aggravating the situation. Good luck getting your tubes tied, I hope the post-BC recovery goes smoothly!

E68bdbd83e45fd5be130e393ace9c9a9

(2063)

on June 12, 2012
at 03:26 AM

Lyndsie, were you on hormonal BC before you got the copper IUD?

E29de61ebb59e6c03d790f0d21645664

(90)

on June 13, 2012
at 04:18 AM

Violet, I had been off of hormonal BC for 8 months before getting my IUD

0
4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

on June 11, 2012
at 12:58 AM

This Question and answer from March might be helpful to you Celine!:

What Tests for acne, candida, and other issues? - PaleoHacks.com http://paleohacks.com/questions/106734/what-tests-for-acne-candida-and-other-issues#ixzz1xRS0bZfm Hello, i am a biochemist @ Fordham University in NYC and would like to respond to you're question.

--Hidden deep within Casanova's 16 volumes of memoirs is a short but powerful story. A girl of a well established family of the court needed help clearing her cystic acne. Casanova offers her incredibly clairvoyant advice which I have transposed into a simple acronym to help folks remember--BAD.

B-burdock root

A-vitamin A

D- vitamin D and no Dairy

(there is more to the answer)

0
318374167f4c3bf3ac0f13ce48211c75

(106)

on June 10, 2012
at 06:16 PM

Do you consume any dairy? That was culprit for me. I struggled with acne since I was a teenager and it's recently gotten worse due to a lot of stress I'm under. Also look into the kind of make up you're wearing. Mine was making my face breakout so I switched to Bare Essentials which only sits on your skin, doesn't clog your pores. I saw major improvements in that. My face will break out when my N 3: N 6 is off (like consuming too many eggs, chicken, fruits or oils without eating enough grass fed meat to balance it out) and my face is notorious for breaking out when it's that time of the month. Keep your towels and pillow cases clean and keep your chin up. It did take a while for my face to see the kind of improvement it did.

318374167f4c3bf3ac0f13ce48211c75

(106)

on June 10, 2012
at 07:44 PM

is it any cheaper than Bare? LOL

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on June 10, 2012
at 09:55 PM

Negative with the dairy, God I only wish.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on June 10, 2012
at 07:54 PM

well No and Yes! You use less since you don't have to do all that "swirling, tapping and buffing" lol

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on June 10, 2012
at 06:25 PM

I used to use BareEscentuals, until I found the Skin Deep® Cosmetics Database (Environmental Working Group) website.They rates toxicity and safety of all body products and cosmetics. www.ewg.org/skindeep It a fabulous website and especially for anyone with skin problems. I switched to Rejuva Minerals products. Great stuff. I like better than Bare Escentuals or Jane Iredale.

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on June 10, 2012
at 09:54 PM

Thanks Clayton! So, hold on, you notice that consuming a lot of oil makes you break out? My thought on the makeup is that if topical acne medication/oils, whatever, make no difference, it must be an internal thing rather than makeup or anything else. Am I wrong do you think?

318374167f4c3bf3ac0f13ce48211c75

(106)

on August 17, 2012
at 03:28 PM

i meant olive oils. they have a poor omega 3: 6 ratio and that's something I need to watch. but definitely internal too. stress will cause my face to breakout

0
4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

on June 10, 2012
at 05:16 PM

My acne greatly improved with diet and also when I started a high dose antoxidant therapy protocol for my Hashimotos. At the root of both of these issues (Hashi's and acne) is oxidative stress. What worked for me was a combination of antioxidants in what is considered by many-"high" doses including: Uquinol (NOW Foods, 200mg caps); R-Lipoic Acid (Geronova Research is the best for R-La); EGCG; Lycopene; and a combination of spices by Oregon Wild Harvest (Cloves, Cinnamon, Turmeric); and Astaxanthin.

I am very curious about your Hashi's and that its "pretty under control". How do you know that? Do you get your Tpo tested often, or do you know by your symptoms? What is your Tpo level? I was able to get mine down from 345 into the "negative" range (<35) but diet alone didnt do it for me. Took a lot of supplements in addition to healing my leaky gut and cleaning up my diet.

Also, does sun help it? I personally would be in the sun a bit each day if possible and without sunscreen. Good luck to you.

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on June 10, 2012
at 09:51 PM

I don't get my Tpo tested ever, so I perhaps don't know. But I did get my thyroid checked when I got my hormonal test done, and I am not yet hypothyroid. I don't have too many certain Hashimoto's symptoms, though- I'm slenderish- 5 "7" and 140, and am not so low-energy that working out every day is a major issue. I get cold, and who knows, maybe my memory would be much better if I didn't have Hashimoto's, but all in all, its aight.

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on June 11, 2012
at 07:10 AM

Crowlover, I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's a year and a half or two ago, so I'm just assuming I haven't recovered. Its not really something that's cured, ever, it seems- just comes and goes.

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on June 10, 2012
at 09:46 PM

Ooooh, fellow Hashimoto's person! Its a pleasure! I'm not gonna lie, I only found out what oxidative stress is through Google just now. Interesting, I may have to check this out when I go to America next! You go to a naturopath? Sun doesn't seem to make a difference, very unfortunately.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on June 10, 2012
at 11:06 PM

Celine why do you say that you have Hashimoto's? How do you know this? And yes, oxidative stress plays a role in very single inflammatory process/disease. CoQ10 in the form of Ubiquinol and R-La might help you .

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on June 10, 2012
at 09:51 PM

So I have no idea what my Tpo is, obviously!

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on June 11, 2012
at 03:45 PM

Ok thanks. Sounds like they did test your level thyroid peroxidase antibodies (TpoAb)... purpose just didn't tell you. That is how Hashimoto's is diagnosed-by a high level of TpoAb. I personally have my TpoAb checked every six months as I feel its something important to follow (and Im fortunate that my doctor, an ND, agrees) and I have been a high antioxidant (and diet of course) protocol to lower my TpoAb. I was in fact able to get it down into the negative range of <35 (from a high of 345). It stayed "negative" for over a year. I hope you can improve yours too! Will diet alone do that?

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on June 10, 2012
at 11:17 PM

Celine why do you say that you have Hashimoto's? How do you know this if you have not had your Thyroid perioxidase (Tpo) antibodies checked? Yes my primary care practitioners are an ND and my PhD level nutritionist. I also have an MD, but don't need her much at at. And yes, oxidative stress plays a role in very single inflammatory process/disease including acne. CoQ10 in the form of Ubiquinol and R-La might help you.. in addition of course to a clean diet (which you are already doing)

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