4

votes

Too much protein?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created January 02, 2012 at 3:38 PM

Lately I've started eating more meat. Liver 2-3 times every week, wild salmon almost every day and a lot of ground beef. I've noticed several bad things : more gas, feeling more tired, worse skin, ... and always after lunch... I eat twice as much meat as I used to, but still not that much compared to some of the people here.

Is it normal that protein gives me issues, or is it a lack of stomach acid?

Edit : Why does everybody think it's not the protein? I happen to know for sure it's that ... As a side note, I eat 100% organic and grass-fed, so I doubt it's the food quality. My question is not : what should I do to improve my skin (compared to my skin 6 months ago my skin is awesome), my question is : why does protein give me issues? (I was probably not very clear about that, I never am :D)

76f3ead3aa977d876bcf3331d35a36e9

(4620)

on April 27, 2012
at 08:30 PM

How is red meat bad news for gut flora?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 23, 2012
at 05:57 AM

are you guys serious? Chicken fucks up my skin. I dont have problens with red meat, I found out protein without sugar makes me hypogycemic. Just had to add loads of fruit.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14932)

on April 22, 2012
at 09:58 PM

I second this. Red meat is bad news for your gut phlora. Drop the red meat and eat foods like chicken, fish, and eggs. I probably eat more protein than you and have no digestive issues with it. However, if I eat a burger (no bun) I will be sidelined half way through my morning track workout.

E753cf7753e7be889ca68b1a4203483f

(722)

on January 25, 2012
at 09:26 PM

Increased protein intake leads to increased protein turnover up until 20-25E%, above that the protein turnover is reduced. The studies are done on rats mostly, but suspect that the same applies for humans. Anecdotes from around the world tells of people being protein poisoned from very high protein diets, but don't think that's common. Protein needs digestion and apparently we are able to digest much less protein than carbs or fat. 2g/kg bodyweight is OK unless you are very sedentary or overweight.

5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on January 05, 2012
at 06:36 PM

Other things that come to mind. Gas with certain foods usually = bugs in your gut liking a food and/or you not digesting it before it gets to them. In this case, protein. So possible things to try, probiotics to crowd the protein loving bugs out, and/or enzymes to digest the protein faster. Robb Wolfe likes Now Super Enzymes, although I haven't tried them.

5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on January 05, 2012
at 06:19 PM

A lot of protein can cause insulin to rise, but I don't see how insulin would give you gas/indigestion.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on January 05, 2012
at 09:57 AM

No, though it's true whey give me issues.

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on January 04, 2012
at 09:21 AM

And why are you so convinced it's the protein? Even if the culprit is your increased meat, liver and fish consumption doesn't necessarily mean it is PROTEIN in it - it might be something else in the foods, or perhaps you're just sick. Have you tried dropping the protein back to previous levels to see if the symptoms go away? And no, I have no idea what it could be, I'm not on expert on any of these matters, just trying to brainstorm ideas how to isolate the source as I'm not convinced you have nailed it down just yet.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on January 03, 2012
at 12:06 PM

I already dropped FODMAPS. Really, I dropped every damn food that could possibly cause issues. Though you make a good point, I don't think it's this, Dean. It's really the protein.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on January 03, 2012
at 12:06 PM

I have no idea how many grams, JRAC :S, sorry. I just know it's way more than usual. Around 2000kcal most of the time, though I will eat more soon when my bone broth is done :)

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on January 03, 2012
at 12:04 PM

Thanks Andreas, good points. I never had success with high-protein. Never. The only thing I wanna know though, is WHY? Why is protein causing issues? It's not a change in diet, as the changes I make are always very gradual. Would it be insulin? I always had problems when eating things that cause insulin to rise.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on January 03, 2012
at 12:02 PM

Bone broth is a good point, I'm waiting for a new batch of bones actually. Lard would cause acne for me due to omega-6 intake. I eat only grass-fed and organic, I don't think I can get higher-quality meat than I'm buying at the moment. The fat is orange, fatty steaks taste like grass, ... Oh, and I eat quite some coconut oil as fat source, though it's probably not enough.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on January 03, 2012
at 11:59 AM

Yeah, fish oil helps my skin a lot. Bad quality fish oil was probably the issue for those people. Garden of Life or Green Pasture's are okay.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on January 03, 2012
at 11:58 AM

Agreed with JRAC. It's not the liver, or I would have known. It actually already started before eating that much liver/salmon.

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on January 03, 2012
at 10:50 AM

Dean, you don't think dysbiosis is a relevant factor to mention in your OP and before you start insulting others?

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on January 03, 2012
at 10:48 AM

Andreas is probably referring to total calories, ie. 20-25% of total calories should come from protein according to him. It depends on your goals, and I challenge Andreas to provide references against high-protein diets. I take about 2g per 1kg of bodyweight with no ill effects, which is a common guidance for those who lift weights.

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on January 03, 2012
at 10:41 AM

Fish oil from caps fixed what was left of my acne after medication.

6b8d12fc3e43179f9ae1765a4d1a9dc2

(5914)

on January 03, 2012
at 10:31 AM

what does 20-25E% mean?

2870a69b9c0c0a19a919e54cb3a62137

(1520)

on January 02, 2012
at 11:24 PM

It's obvious you've never dealt with serious dysbiosis. It's not the metabolic effects that are the problem. I'm not gonna go into all the details for someone like you.

2870a69b9c0c0a19a919e54cb3a62137

(1520)

on January 02, 2012
at 11:20 PM

It's obvious you've never dealt with serious dysbiosis. It's not the metabolic effects that are the problem. I'm sorry to say it's you who is retarded, and I'm not gonna go into all the details for someone like you.

D12142c8cafb16d9af10b3362cb8fb62

(1590)

on January 02, 2012
at 10:51 PM

Why? It's pretty retarded to think liver glycogen will pose a problem. Almost as bad as when Taubes said even leafy greens may have too many carbs for some.

2870a69b9c0c0a19a919e54cb3a62137

(1520)

on January 02, 2012
at 10:27 PM

The only thing you should be sorry for is your intellect.

2870a69b9c0c0a19a919e54cb3a62137

(1520)

on January 02, 2012
at 10:27 PM

You really have no idea what you're talking about.

D12142c8cafb16d9af10b3362cb8fb62

(1590)

on January 02, 2012
at 10:05 PM

Vitamin A (retinol) toxicity is only really relevant with supplements and arctic explorers getting millions of IU. Liver twice a week is fine. I eat a pound a week of lamb liver.

D12142c8cafb16d9af10b3362cb8fb62

(1590)

on January 02, 2012
at 10:02 PM

Sorry but if you think the tiny amounts of glucose in liver is the reason you have a problem you really are deluding yourself.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on January 02, 2012
at 05:25 PM

A competes with D receptors, if you take too much. Try the bone broth & see if it works for you!

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on January 02, 2012
at 04:46 PM

I don't see what's wrong with Retinol... I used to supplement lots of it. I've yet to see a case of toxicity, especially as my daily retinol intake is smaller than 40k IU (30k on non-liver days). Could bone broth replace kombucha though?

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on January 02, 2012
at 04:38 PM

And if you are taking CLO as well, you are setting yourself up for Vit A (retinol) toxicity.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on January 02, 2012
at 04:37 PM

Def. drop down the liver. Waaay too much retinol. I eat 3-4 oz of liver a week, max. And it's chicken liver mostly, which has less retinol than beef or lamb. I drink 3 oz or so of kombucha with my meat meals. It helps me digest with no bloating or gas.

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10 Answers

4
8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on January 02, 2012
at 03:57 PM

That sounds like lots of liver to me. I wouldn't feel right eating so much. My stomach always feels better when I pair meats with green veggies like parsley, kale or salads.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on January 02, 2012
at 04:46 PM

I don't see what's wrong with Retinol... I used to supplement lots of it. I've yet to see a case of toxicity, especially as my daily retinol intake is smaller than 40k IU (30k on non-liver days). Could bone broth replace kombucha though?

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on January 02, 2012
at 04:38 PM

And if you are taking CLO as well, you are setting yourself up for Vit A (retinol) toxicity.

D12142c8cafb16d9af10b3362cb8fb62

(1590)

on January 02, 2012
at 10:05 PM

Vitamin A (retinol) toxicity is only really relevant with supplements and arctic explorers getting millions of IU. Liver twice a week is fine. I eat a pound a week of lamb liver.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on January 03, 2012
at 11:58 AM

Agreed with JRAC. It's not the liver, or I would have known. It actually already started before eating that much liver/salmon.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on January 02, 2012
at 04:37 PM

Def. drop down the liver. Waaay too much retinol. I eat 3-4 oz of liver a week, max. And it's chicken liver mostly, which has less retinol than beef or lamb. I drink 3 oz or so of kombucha with my meat meals. It helps me digest with no bloating or gas.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on January 02, 2012
at 05:25 PM

A competes with D receptors, if you take too much. Try the bone broth & see if it works for you!

3
64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on January 02, 2012
at 05:24 PM

Could be too much salmon for your skin. Some people get acne when taking fish oil, probably a similar thing happening with all that salmon.

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on January 03, 2012
at 10:41 AM

Fish oil from caps fixed what was left of my acne after medication.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on January 03, 2012
at 11:59 AM

Yeah, fish oil helps my skin a lot. Bad quality fish oil was probably the issue for those people. Garden of Life or Green Pasture's are okay.

1
5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on January 03, 2012
at 08:56 PM

Hrm, I've not had any problems with the protein you listed. However, I do get it from time to time when I go heavy on Whey. Are you taking any Whey?

5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on January 05, 2012
at 06:36 PM

Other things that come to mind. Gas with certain foods usually = bugs in your gut liking a food and/or you not digesting it before it gets to them. In this case, protein. So possible things to try, probiotics to crowd the protein loving bugs out, and/or enzymes to digest the protein faster. Robb Wolfe likes Now Super Enzymes, although I haven't tried them.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on January 05, 2012
at 09:57 AM

No, though it's true whey give me issues.

1
D12142c8cafb16d9af10b3362cb8fb62

(1590)

on January 02, 2012
at 10:07 PM

I agree with Jeff perhaps Fish or more likely the total protein.

How many grams a day?

and how many calories?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on January 03, 2012
at 12:06 PM

I have no idea how many grams, JRAC :S, sorry. I just know it's way more than usual. Around 2000kcal most of the time, though I will eat more soon when my bone broth is done :)

1
2870a69b9c0c0a19a919e54cb3a62137

(1520)

on January 02, 2012
at 09:55 PM

I can eat pounds of meat daily without such issues... but liver caused me problems, probably due to the glycogen. That's why I recommend dropping liver (use CLO instead) for a while to see if things improve. To be really sure whether it's the meat/protein, you could also drop all other sources of carbohydrates and FODMAPs, including those in supplements. Basically you need to find a diet where you have no such issues. Then reintroduce things one by one and observe the results. Let us know how it goes.

2870a69b9c0c0a19a919e54cb3a62137

(1520)

on January 02, 2012
at 11:20 PM

It's obvious you've never dealt with serious dysbiosis. It's not the metabolic effects that are the problem. I'm sorry to say it's you who is retarded, and I'm not gonna go into all the details for someone like you.

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on January 03, 2012
at 10:50 AM

Dean, you don't think dysbiosis is a relevant factor to mention in your OP and before you start insulting others?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on January 03, 2012
at 12:06 PM

I already dropped FODMAPS. Really, I dropped every damn food that could possibly cause issues. Though you make a good point, I don't think it's this, Dean. It's really the protein.

2870a69b9c0c0a19a919e54cb3a62137

(1520)

on January 02, 2012
at 10:27 PM

The only thing you should be sorry for is your intellect.

D12142c8cafb16d9af10b3362cb8fb62

(1590)

on January 02, 2012
at 10:02 PM

Sorry but if you think the tiny amounts of glucose in liver is the reason you have a problem you really are deluding yourself.

2870a69b9c0c0a19a919e54cb3a62137

(1520)

on January 02, 2012
at 11:24 PM

It's obvious you've never dealt with serious dysbiosis. It's not the metabolic effects that are the problem. I'm not gonna go into all the details for someone like you.

2870a69b9c0c0a19a919e54cb3a62137

(1520)

on January 02, 2012
at 10:27 PM

You really have no idea what you're talking about.

D12142c8cafb16d9af10b3362cb8fb62

(1590)

on January 02, 2012
at 10:51 PM

Why? It's pretty retarded to think liver glycogen will pose a problem. Almost as bad as when Taubes said even leafy greens may have too many carbs for some.

1
E753cf7753e7be889ca68b1a4203483f

on January 02, 2012
at 09:04 PM

Indigestion of various kinds are normal when one switches dietary habits. A diet high in meats etc takes some time getting used to. I generally advise against eating to much protein, 1g/lean pound or 20-25E%, whichever is the lower. Only exception would be short term on very low energy diets. Perhaps some people fare poorly on much protein and need to keep there intake much lower than what's normal for the meat-loving Paleofolks:)

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on January 03, 2012
at 10:48 AM

Andreas is probably referring to total calories, ie. 20-25% of total calories should come from protein according to him. It depends on your goals, and I challenge Andreas to provide references against high-protein diets. I take about 2g per 1kg of bodyweight with no ill effects, which is a common guidance for those who lift weights.

6b8d12fc3e43179f9ae1765a4d1a9dc2

(5914)

on January 03, 2012
at 10:31 AM

what does 20-25E% mean?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on January 03, 2012
at 12:04 PM

Thanks Andreas, good points. I never had success with high-protein. Never. The only thing I wanna know though, is WHY? Why is protein causing issues? It's not a change in diet, as the changes I make are always very gradual. Would it be insulin? I always had problems when eating things that cause insulin to rise.

5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on January 05, 2012
at 06:19 PM

A lot of protein can cause insulin to rise, but I don't see how insulin would give you gas/indigestion.

E753cf7753e7be889ca68b1a4203483f

(722)

on January 25, 2012
at 09:26 PM

Increased protein intake leads to increased protein turnover up until 20-25E%, above that the protein turnover is reduced. The studies are done on rats mostly, but suspect that the same applies for humans. Anecdotes from around the world tells of people being protein poisoned from very high protein diets, but don't think that's common. Protein needs digestion and apparently we are able to digest much less protein than carbs or fat. 2g/kg bodyweight is OK unless you are very sedentary or overweight.

0
Medium avatar

(2338)

on August 27, 2012
at 11:47 AM

is it possible that your getting too many o3's and not enough o6's? if you are eating salmon everyday, eating 100% grass fed, and avoiding other foods that have o6's (like most paleo's do) then you may have the opposite problem that most people have. even though we all know o3's are good for you there is still a point of diminishing returns. they are still polyunsatured fats which make them very unstable and prone to oxidation. something to think about.

0
84852b74f4c8085276a3773de3518c2e

on August 27, 2012
at 09:47 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_starvation#Possible_mechanisms

Under "Possible mechanisms" it says the body has to have time to upregulate hepatic enzymes. If it is the protein it might be that it goes undigested for abit or is slowing down digestion; giving time for fermentation to set in = gas.

0
305509b316f67bbf20cdde2178df1dc8

(8)

on April 22, 2012
at 08:02 PM

Its the Ground beef. How could you think eating that is healthy? I have psoriasis and eat 4 eggs a day and plenty of fish, pork, and chicken. My protein probabkl doubles yours. I cannot eat beef though. My skin goes crazy. Right now my skin is 100% clear from eating paleo, working out, andngetting sun. Cut out the beef. How cows are raise doesnt matter if its grass fed or organic, there arenstill lots of bacteria and other things in there

Source: phd molecular biologist that lives a natural lifestyle

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14932)

on April 22, 2012
at 09:58 PM

I second this. Red meat is bad news for your gut phlora. Drop the red meat and eat foods like chicken, fish, and eggs. I probably eat more protein than you and have no digestive issues with it. However, if I eat a burger (no bun) I will be sidelined half way through my morning track workout.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 23, 2012
at 05:57 AM

are you guys serious? Chicken fucks up my skin. I dont have problens with red meat, I found out protein without sugar makes me hypogycemic. Just had to add loads of fruit.

76f3ead3aa977d876bcf3331d35a36e9

(4620)

on April 27, 2012
at 08:30 PM

How is red meat bad news for gut flora?

0
33b6c516904a967ef8ecb30f1dbd8cf2

(7073)

on January 03, 2012
at 08:56 AM

Make sure that you are increasing your fat levels too, you should be eating more fat than protein as a rule. Traditional cooking always serves liver with fat in the form of sausages etc. Ground beef will have less fat content than say bacon. Cook with lard or goose/duck fat and make broths from bones with fat added from gravies.

If you are having digestive problems, make your main meal as near to noon as you can, this is when the body has the most powerful digestive action and make sure you do not consume any liquid with your meal, so that the digestive juice does not get diluted.

The skin issues maybe from your body trying to get rid of toxins, make sure you stick to an organic diet as possible. Salmon which is intensively farmed is routinely injected with anti-biotics and growth hormones, as is the case with factory farmed beef. Try and find local, grass fed meat/organic fish as much as possible and support these with organic vegetables. This will lower the burden of toxins in your body which will be causing the skin issues.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on January 03, 2012
at 12:02 PM

Bone broth is a good point, I'm waiting for a new batch of bones actually. Lard would cause acne for me due to omega-6 intake. I eat only grass-fed and organic, I don't think I can get higher-quality meat than I'm buying at the moment. The fat is orange, fatty steaks taste like grass, ... Oh, and I eat quite some coconut oil as fat source, though it's probably not enough.

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