I was an adherent to the Doug Graham way for a little over two years. From what I could tell interacting with a large part of the community during that time, 80-10-10 leaves you either emaciated and skinny, or emaciated and fat. There are only a handful of exceptions to this, and all of them are ferociously athletic (marathoners, basically). In fact even the ridiculously athletic people seem to end up looking incredibly thin, despite loading up on as many calories they can possibly consume from fruit and greens.
In my personal experience, 80-10-10 initially seemed fantastic. I started losing weight very quickly and had more energy than I had previously experienced. But after 8 or 9 months, I started losing hair, my energy was low, the weight loss stalled, my teeth were suffering (chewing became physically painful), and I started having issues with depression. At the advice of 30BaD, I dramatically increased my calorie intake (from 1200 to 2300, from 1lb of greens to 3-4lbs). After 6 months of that I had recovered from some of the issues I was experiencing, but gained back a significant amount of the weight I had lost. At the advice of 30BaD, I increased my calorie intake again (by 400) and dramatically increased my level of exercise (from running 20 miles per week to 35, plus weight training). I did that for 10 months and gave up. When I stopped, I was absolutely miserable. One day I would have energy and I would workout and lose weight, the next I could barely drag myself out of bed - and no amount of bananas or date-water could convince my legs to run 5 miles.
I have no doubt the diet can be successful, even long term, for an incredibly active individual who is willing to devote his or her life to their diet and exercise regime. I am definitely not that person. I tried it, I hated it. It's not for me. I definitely prefer a more "paleo" approach to life. Less cardio, less forcefeeding, and a fuckload less time on the toilet. Also more hair. Which is nice.
This diet is very dangerous and some people get really sick from it. I'm included in that and I'm still recovering from this diet 2 years later.
I've written an article about my nightmare of a health on the diet here: http://thepaleodiet.net/how-steve-pavlina-almost-killed-me/
I can only hope that people in search for a solution for their problems will hear about the paleo diet before the raw food diet because it will save them many problem.
what does google think about it? hmm
well that is google's opinion on the matter :-)
I love dogs and was HORRIFIED when Durianrider posted pics of dogs being put in ovens or pig-tied for slaughter, in order to "make his point" about meat-eating. I was so anxious that he would put ideas into the heads of depraved people in this world. He is NOT helping cows & pigs but only debasing the life of DOGS: MAN'S BEST FRIEND. It's another New Age Counterfeit to put man's companion animals on the same level as those he uses for food. VERY DANGEROUS PERSON TO DO THIS.
This was my meal replacement: 10 bananas, 10 dates and blueberries for breakfast blender meal. [Reason for being banned]: Then a piece cheese for lunch and SKIP DINNER. But according to them, NO animal, FASTING OR UNDER-EATING--as that's how you get fat as the body goes into storage mode. But by eating 3 grand calories daily the body "trusts" you & will dis-fatten. That's their theory. Thanks for this forum
This is basically Ornish's diet, with a raw vegan twist on it. I think 10% fat is probably at or below the limit of what's possible while remaining healthy.
It is probably tough to avoid EFA deficiency on this diet.
Cordain's paper on HG macronutrient ratios puts fat at a minimum of 25%. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10702160
Thirty 100 gram bananas would provide (nutritiondata on raw bananas)
- 684g of carbohydrates (336 grams of sugar)
- 33g of protein
- 9g of fat
Minerals (relative to RDA) - 30% Calcium, Iron, Zinc, Selenium, 40% Manganese, 60% Phosphorus, 120% Copper, 210% Magnesium, 300% Potassium
Vitamins (relative to RDA) - 30% A, 60% B1, 120% B2, 90% B5, 90% B3, 150% B9, 450% C, 30% E, 30% K
A not very delicious twist on aiming for diabetes (see Drew's link). The equivalent of yams or potatoes (by calories), which would provide about 1/10th the sugar.
There's a woman I know with a whole passel of kids who is a raw food superstar online. People LURVE her and always cite her as an example of vegan raw perfection. But in real life she is gray with circles under her eyes and all her kids have the same dark circles and bad complexions. Plus they are ALWAYS sick. ALWAYS.
There are some great vegan & raw recipes out there and some of them make sense with Paleo (I just got a book from a friend with some dressing/dips that I think will go well with our new lifestyle) but others are so time-consuming and crazy! I told my husband this is the difference:
Raw/Vegan meal: Soak the nuts then grind to a fine paste. Add sprouted seeds. Chop several vegetables and add a single teaspoon obscure ingredient you paid an arm and a leg for but without which the recipe will fail spectacularly. Eat. Repeat in an hour when you're starving again.
Paleo meal: Sear the meat. Enjoy. Repeat in five hours.
To add to what everybody is saying, maybe you'd want to read the experiences of this ex-vegan illuminating:
Every day for the past 2 months I have eaten fish or a piece of meat or eggs. To my never ending shock I have found that I digest a meat and veggie meal far, far better than I ever digested a whole grain/nut/veggie meal. I know that the lipid hypothesis is completely fallacious, these animal foods won???t hurt me or cause me ill health in anyway, in fact, the vitamins and minerals they provide, along with the nutritious cholesterol and wholesome saturated fat, will restore my health. And they have. There are few things as healthy and nutritious as grass fed, organic animal products. So, for these past months, I ate animals and animal products every single day. And, I say with a huge, grateful smile on my face: I???m back! After 1 month on my new diet my blood levels were either normal, or almost normal. After 2 months every single deficiency and out of whack number was completely restored to the healthy, normal range. Not one problem. Not one.
They always say you don???t really know what health is until you???ve lost it. And I never realized how unhealthy I actually was until I started feeling better. Glowing is the only way I can possibly begin to describe the way I feel now. If I was a religious woman, miraculous would have to be my word of choice to express the transformation I???ve undergone in the past 2 months. I???m now reveling in my health; basking in the clear headed precision of my thoughts, the strength of my legs when I run, the warmth radiating from my skin, the slow, melodic power of my heart, and the perfect knowledge of my body when it tells me exactly what to eat, how much, and when.eat, how much, and when.
I reckon they are all monkeys.. ;)
It's interesting that a lot of them are marathoners. I like Robert Lustig's take on fructose and athletes. Paraphrasing here:
"If you're an elite athlete, you can do whatever you want. You can have unlimited fructose. But it's not the athletes drinking the gatorade. It's the fat kids."
So you can probably get away with all that fructose as long as you're exercising nonstop. But I wonder what happens when sedentary....
Regardless, that doesn't prevent you from becoming deficient as hell in various micro-nutrients.
Here's what I think of that site. Even when I was a raw food vegan, I thought those guys were crazy. It's obviously a totally deficient diet. May make you feel okay in the short term, but the lack of very essential nutrients will eventually catch up with you.
i felt sick after eating 4 bananas in a sitting the other day (roasted on campfire, actually). 26 more? PUKE INTO FIRE, EXTINGUISHING MY HUMANITY. not paleo.
I was a raw food vegan for almost a year which I loved and then switched to an all fruit diet because I wanted to lose an extra 10 pounds of unwanted fat. I was only on this diet maybe four months and did not shed 1 pound. I also run marathons and participate in triathlons so it couldn't have been from not exercising. They also, claim that their diet can help with people that have diabetes. Well, shortly after I strated the diet I was diagnosed with prediabetes. I continued the diet and monitored my sugar just to see what was happening within my body. My sugars were going sky high even with very low amounts of fruit. I decided to ditch the fruit diet and placed myself on a low carb diet instead in order to get my sugar levels under control. Amazingly my sugar levels dropped dramaticlly. I am still prediabetic levels but at least they are way lower. I will always have to stick to a low carb diet now. I do not believe the fruit diet caused my prediabetes but I know it did not help. Also, fruit is obviously a better choice of sugar but lets remember sugar is suagr. People with prediabetes and Diabetes should not be on this diet!
Have you ever seen 30-bananas a day....on weed?
I have nothing to say about the diet. They can eat however they want. The problem with that site is its forceful oppression of thought and difference of opinion: they coddle themselves in their unscientific vegan world. 30bad.com is good for only one thing: to learn how not to learn.
My opinion. makkes fruitarian lifestyle sick. NO if you stay playing stay alive. I think it will keep you a live. if you acr like a alive person you will drive on this good fruitarian diet. Maybe there is some exclusions.
I also experiment wiht high fruit periods. and i like eating a lot bannanas and dates. Whatever sometimes they also harm me. It so much relatted among which people iam. in which environment. in which bioregion. do im playful, do im joyful, do i walking a lot. What challanges have my life. Its not just raw food its not just eating? its more thann just eating fruit. If you mmeet rawfoodist some are very healthy other are sick and sad. its on a lot issues. education, social class, ethnic, whatever.
im a bit tired i notice.
the videos bbelwow show you how healthy people can be on fruit. this are just some videos. and decide for your self. follow your heart!
If you wanna eat little or less animal products tthis site can probabbly give you some clever advice(30bannnanandays)
also google for the fruitarian dot org. choose lena the russian american young woman. also you can look michela arrnsteins videos
this little video is different lovely amusing heartspeaking and simple. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdYizCf-yHY
Let introduce mrs. banana joe andd his ffriends...
30 BaD is just another twist on the raw vegan diet. Most raw vegans run into problems with vitamin deficiency particularly vit a, vit d, b12, and k2, all of which must be obtained from animal fats or supplements. Vitamin D can be gotten from the sun but if you live in Northern climate it's nearly impossible to get adequate d. Most vegans report feeling a vibrant glow after switching from the SAD diet. Of course anyone coming off a diet of pizzas, sodas and fries will feel this 'glow' too.
I just had my account suspended from that site for (I'm fairly certain) saying it becomes a cult when you stop asking questions, among a few other politely opposing remarks. There are are some nice, open-minded folks, but many are so dickish and arrogant! I deleted my posts and I'm not looking back. I don't want to be fruitarian now for many reasons, but one reason is I don't want to be associated with Durianrider. He's the worst of the lot.
I've been poking around on the page in search of a laugh (a cheap one, but anyway) and it looks a lot like a cult to me...
From the FAQ, it seems that every doubt about the program is a result of not doing the program correctly, and that questioning their wisdom is a product of not following it. Weird stuff...
I like bananas, but not that much. Other than that, pshaw, they're not real hardcore in it unless they're eating the skins too. :)
I used to go on it when I first started Paleo cause it was interesting too see how they justified their diet (or rather, what the enemy was saying). This may just be in my head, but it literally gave me a headache reading all that crap. I started feeling like I did when I was a vegan.
I think when Minger gave up raw veganism, she gave up raw as well. I don't think she eats 100% raw animal products. Someone can correct me if I have misunderstood her.
To their credit, the "salvation" of the LFRV diet is the fact they "overfeed." The 30Bananas a day thing is just a euphemism for the fruitarian diet.
Some of them actually look pretty good, but for most people this isn't a long term diet and never will be.
If they are considered defenders of T. Colin Campbell, then he is in worse trouble than I initially thought. :-)
Its pure poision. Targeting the weak and vulnerable trying desperately to find a healthy diet and demonizing the natural food chain of life. I was susceptible to it, got super depressed, anxious, paranoid, vitamin deficient, anemic etc. PALEO FOREVER:>
Bananas fried in coconut oil taste like candy. I love them. I don't care, however for Harley and his ill-supported schtick. I would think the same of a paleo hob-nobber who spoke so confidently and used sensationalist tactics.
I think Dr. Lustig is absolutely right on the fructose issue.If we eat too much fructose our liver glycogen will fillup and the excess will be put into fat.I tried a vegan diet with mostly fruit yesterday and i gained weight so i'm back with the meat now.They even admit it in the website that you will gain weight initially before your body starts stripping itself down from lack of fat and protein.
I think all those gurus don't totally know what they are talking about but the message is good. people who are telling people on a sad diet to eat more fruits and vegetables aren't doing bad work. I am a paleo to vegan convert. I never ever expected it to happen since I had been eating strict paleo for 2 years, but i actually came across a post on paleohacks making fun of this woman and for some reason...although she is totally obnoxious, i decided to make a switch !!! I went high carb mostly raw vegan and unlimited calories (omg) after eating high fat high protein on paleo- and here i am a year and a half later FINALLY super lean without acne and with lots of energy and new fitness gains. I kept waiting for all that to happen for me on paleo but it never did. in the first week a huge amount of mucus left my body and i have been feeling lighter leaner and more mentally alert since. I thought paleo was working for me until i tried something else. I think paleo can work for people, but if you haven't been reaching your goals i would say try something else even for just a month! it might change your life
Wow... Thanks! I've been researching the paleo/crossfit to lose weight and be HEALTHY. I was looking for transformations on youtube, came across freeleebananagirl. Beautiful girl, would love to have a body like hers. But has she ever dealt with real weight issues, childhood obesity, etc.? I went on the FIRM diet for a month gained 5lbs.(insulin resistant) I really didn't think the banana thing would work or a complete vegan raw food lifestyle for someone like me. And your comments about the matter has completely reassured me. Thanks!
I registered on the website because a co-worker told me but from what I'm reading AND from common sense, it just doesn't sound right. And I have seen pictures of their members on the site as well and they look un-naturally thin and anorexic.
This is just a diet, and I use that in a negative connotation because just like other diets. You are depriving your body of other essential nutrients, vitamins and minerals if you're only eating bananas or whatever.
The purpose should be to EAT RIGHT, the way that is best for your body. The only book I am benefiting from right now is Beauty Detox Foods by Kimberly Snyder. There are no diet formulas, pills, calorie counting or meal replacements or anything like that. It is eating wholesome food, nutrient and vitamin rich to detox your body and keep you at your optimum!
I would definitely recommend everyone to pick it up at your local library. I ended up buying my own copy so I can use this as a daily handbook because it has a full set of recipes for Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner and snacks -- All non-processed foods.
I don't know why this 30BAD thing was NOT working for me. But actually I felt better with standard cooked food than with 801010 or 30bad style.
But I don't know why, because I went on a liquid diet, which was, only raw fruit and vegetable juices, and I felt absolutely great. And I do not know why I felt so absolutely great with this kind of liquid 801010 style. But with the "real" solid 801010 style, my endurance went down.
I used to run 45min to an hour and a half EVERY NIGHT - before starting 801010. After starting with 801010 for two weeks my energy got less and less and I couldn't even run the short turn around my neighbourhood with slow pace. I had to stop running and walk back because I had no energy.
Once I did green juices only for a few days and "broke the fast" with 5 bananas. Immediately, I felt absolutely terrible, like some kind of "sugar shock" was terrorizing my body. I could absolutely NOT eat so much food. And my body told me to not eat so much and have longer breaks. I know some fruitarians and for them it is only working because they eat VERY LITTLE and do lots of fasting. But I have no clue why this kind a lifestyle is working for them. I think ethically it is a great thing and I would love this concept to be working for me. But somehow, yet, it didn't...
I always thought that vegans wanted to changed the way we treat animals. So rather than buying only farm raised animals they stop eating animals all to gather. Am I the only one who find that a little confusing. it would be like buying a car in the 1950 not having a air bag. Then one day getting in to a crash where I would sustained a injury then would start telling people that all cars are evil and people who drive cars are evil. Rather then coming up with the idea for the air bag. truth be told I wouldn't want to work in a factory farm. So I go to my local farmer and I buy my meat there because I know that the animal has had a happy life. You understand vegans? do I need to make more analogies for you?. You see this type of behavior throughout the world through religion, politics, war.
as for the diet it sound scientifically legit I'm being sarcastic.
Published on Aug 24, 2012 by duriansrider VEGAN BLOODTESTS AFTER 11 YEARS VEGAN. HEALTHY OR SICK??? lol!
5/4/09 Blood work
Triglycerides = 0.6 mmol/l = 53.14438 mg/dl TC = 3.5 mmol/l = 135.34416 mg/dl HDL = 1.3 mmol/l = 50.27069 mg/dl LDL (Calculated) = 1.9 mmol/l = 73.47254 mg/dl
5/17/2011 Blood work
Triglycerides = 0.7 mmol/l = 62.00177 mg/dl TC = 4.8 mmol/l = 185.61485 mg/dl HDL = 1.5 mmol/l = 58.00464 mg/dl LDL (Calculated)= 3 mmol/l = 116.00928 mg/dl
From 5/4/09 to 5/17/2011 his LDL INCREASED from 73 to 116 and his TC INCREASED from 135 to 185
All on a low fat high carb raw fruit diet - SO - how healthy can it really be?
i did 811 for two years and after one month on it, i started bleeding again rectally. i had been diagnosed with ulcerative colitis years before i started this diet and corrected it by becoming a vegan. i felt great for a while and then found out about this superhuman fruit diet. i figured i would try it. well, besides the bleeding, i felt good and had a lot of energy. my UC ended up coming back with a vengeance months into the diet. i went on the site a lot asking for help and stupidly listened to them. i ate nothing but bananas/dates for weeks or just drank juice. i cut out all possible triggers like nightshades and cruciferous veggies. nothing helped. the 30bad community kept blaming me for my UC and saying that i must be cheating. blah blah blah. i was so sick and they just had no idea what they were talking about. i was just so convinced the diet wasn't the cause that i still followed it for years during my flares while on tons of medications and in the hospital!
i ended up starting paleo 50 days ago because i knew 811 was not helping at all. i have seen some improvements, still have bleeding, urgency, and pain, but i'm hoping the paleo diet will eventually put me into remission. i'm not naive thinking that it will be my saving grace because then i'd get my hopes up. i still take my meds and am on supplements.
I think a raw vegan diet is good for cleansing your body. That is, it should not be something done long-term. And the 30BAD ideal of stuffing yourself with 2-4,000 calories a day is ridiculous. They're all about a natural approach to eating/diet/health, but to me, force feeding yourself until you feel as if you are going to burst 3-4 times a day is not natural. They also delete any comments that go against what they say and ban anyone who doesnt agree with them. Also pretty much nothing of what they say has any actual scientific evidence to back them up. The forums on that site are full of people who are having problems with the diet, whos characters are then attacked because they "must be doing something wrong". Ill state again that I believe following a BALANCED raw vegan diet can be very beneficial to health and in detoxifying the body, but it shouldn't be followed long term. I used to be vegan, and as an experiment tried paleo for a few months. I did this because I wanted a well rounded approach to health, and didn't want to eliminate the option of eating meat without giving it a real try. I found that i honestly just do not enjoy eating meat, it feels like i'm eating death (i know that sounds weird but its the only way i can explain it...) and i much prefer fruits and vegetables, but i don't hold anything against people who eat meat. Now I'm starting again on vegan, except this time I'm doing raw vegan for a few months because my body is telling me that's what i need right now to detoxify. But i have no problem with adding in eggs when i feel the need to, and perhaps even some raw milk. Food should never be a challenge. People should quit trying to stick 100% to all these "ways of eating" and just eat what comes naturally to them (as long as your idea of natural isnt a mcdonalds salad...) and gives them the most health benefits
I think that if one banana gives me a spastic colon... I think 30 in one day might kill me.
For people who can digest fruit and do okay with a high-sugar diet (I for one have hypoglycemia with reactive episodes, as well as probable fructose intolerance), it's probably not totally destructive for the short-term. It's also, I suspect, much healthier for women than men. The women on the 30BaD mostly look fine; the men are skinny-fat to downright emaciated.
I have been a vegetarian, a vegan, but never a raw vegan, much less a fruitarian. I ate fairly WAPF-style (lots of soaked grains and nuts, veggies) before going paleo. Plant-based diets are just not healthy for me personally. I know because I've tried, and I paid with my health. Thank god it's been reversible - though I think I'll have to stick to a paleo diet for the rest of my life.
This is the first I have ever heard of this and it sounds crazy and dumb to me. And you gotta wonder what the cashier atthe grocery thinks when u r checking out with all those bananas...
Shouldn't they look like complete and utter shit from all the fructose they are ingesting? It is well known that fructose is the most glycating of all the sugars, 10x more than glucose, yet some of these people look perfectly fine. Although Graham and his wife looked to have aged considerably.
I'd say most of the posters here don't know jackfruit about this topic. All I see are people trumpeting what makes them feel good about their meat and fat or other food addictions. Or justifying their high body fat %. You guys don't know what truly low body fat % looks like.
Use Cronometer or other tool to track calories and nutrients to Ornish rules, 10% fat, 10% protein, 80% carbs. You can do it on 811 and LFRV or cook your starch. If you eat intact whole carb food, fruit or cooked, with lots of veggies, raw or cooked, NO WAY YOU WILL BE DEFICIENT IN NUTRIENTS! Of course you have to watch B12 and get sun, just like you watch your cholesterol or TGs on high fat. If you have a problem correct it. Funny, the rare instance someone has to take a B12 supplement and the whole diet is bad, yet everyone is happy with body odor, bad breath, malnutrition on other diet styles.
For you amusement: PROTEIN: WHO recommends 5% of calories from protein. 811 is 10%. Which BTW scales. If you are more active and you common sensically think you need protein guess what, when you're active you need more calories * 10% = proportionally more protein. With good combinations of fruits and veggies, you also go over EAA requirements 2-3X.
FAT: Everyone on planet, except weak willed meat addicts, agree that 10% fat is ideal for long term health. the EFA question is a good one, however meat heads also like to talk about ratios, for example high LDL is OK as long as HDL is high, right (actually wrong, but you're argument). Check out fruit or intact whole starch diet and the ratio of n=6 to n=3 is ideal. The n=3 amount may be something you are personally concerned with, then eat a tbsp of flaxseed.
MINERALS: You must eat greens and veggies w fruit! The mineral content of fruit is not adequate. These hair loss, teeth loss guys weren't eating enough minerals. If they did and were still losing their hair, they were doing something else. I would wager still sneaking coffee or gels or power bars or chocolate or some crap.
EXERCISE: The comment about marathoners can eat whatever they want is proven false by key high profile folks dropping dead. Look it up.
VITAMIN D: If you live in the north you can get D from a sun lamp, for small increments a day when sunlight is low. Otherwise as long as you get outside you're fine.
All of the Blue Zone longevity cultures are nearly 80% carb diets. The Eskimos that eat blubber are the only people paleos can point to, but they don't live as long. And extinct neanderthals that ate lots of domesticated corn fed cattle back then in the paleolithic.
To give you a "bone" these all bananas all the time guys, should introduce some variety in their diet. But, it's been done before, cultures live on mostly corn and run 100s miles in mexico, or live on mostly sweet potatoes or cooked green bananas or mostly fruit in Hunza valley ...
Bone #2, you probably could get by as well eating a SMALL amount of lean meats, mainly fish. And I mean small, small enough to keep fat and protein <=10% (aka replace nuts w a piece of fish).
There you have it. Glad I could help you out!
Well, my opinion on it (based on the info you provided) is similar to the one I have on "Skinny bitch" book that I just had a chance to open in a bookstore the other day...
I know when I stay 80/10/10 RV how much better I feel, but hard to keep on As for others talking of older folk on this lifestyle I suggest they Google Fred Besci very fit man early eighties and been 80/10/10 about 50 years
If humans are meant to eat animal products and not fruits, then why do we have taste bud receptors for sweet things but not fats? Also, if we were true meat eaters, then the sight of a dead animal carcass on the road with its intestines all spilled out would make us salivate, as it would a true carnivore or opportunistic omnivore, but I don't think it does for the majority of the human population.