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Can eggs cause brain fog?

Commented on February 27, 2015
Created February 20, 2014 at 8:18 PM

I had stopped eating them for a while. As far as I know, they used to cause me no issue.

Now that I've reintroduced them, I feel fatigued whenever I eat them. I've tested just eating yolks. I always get a bit of white, but it's mostly just yolk. Even then I feel brain fog.

1. Anyone else have eggs do this?

2. Is there a way to rebuild my ability to eat eggs? I'd rather not have to avoid them.

Cbfcdfc9737800314effea0c340e09fe

(0)

on February 25, 2014
at 02:31 AM

Yes, I totally agree.

618fc5298c4a96b817c4918c795a875f

(1207)

on February 23, 2014
at 04:47 PM

Someone who studied neurobiology should know how to spell "cheese"

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on February 23, 2014
at 11:49 AM

http://www.bch.cuhk.edu.hk/webct/ssm2608/kmc/Brain%20barrier%20and%20metals.pdf

Damaged barriers or permeability of the barriers to xenobiotics may represent a risk factor for neurotoxic consequences.

It is critical to ascertain the identity and to establish the relative expression of the different drug metabolizing enzyme isoforms present at the barriers. Whether metabolic activation can lead to alteration of the barrier functions and how the cells forming the barrier protect themselves against toxic metabolic products are deemed important topics for future research.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on February 23, 2014
at 04:45 AM

To confirm the egg allergy, you can eat a meal containing eggs then do an IgG test for it.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on February 23, 2014
at 04:43 AM

No need to fear, you would know if you were having major toxin and sulfite issues. (Then again, a lot of us end up here for toxin type of issues.)

If no other food does it for you, then you're allergic to eggs. Stop eating eggs. You can develop an allergy with a leaky gut. (Bone broth is great there.)

If you'd like to look more into that very small possibility (maybe I shouldn't have brought it up), you can order a Urine Amino Acid test and check for elevated ammonia + taurine, or, see if you benefit from a restricted sulfur diet (but you wouldn't want to do that for long.)

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on February 23, 2014
at 04:37 AM

If the other's aren't offenders, then that's probably not your problem. Broccoli and garlic would let you know if you were extra sensitive to it. I would then suspect histamines / a food allergy then. Maybe back off the egg and up your organs.

032b342bc20e78d74f3954af570c6258

(50)

on February 23, 2014
at 03:40 AM

Hmm, rather interesting, and alarming. Do you have a source/further reading on this, especially your last paragraph? I've never felt this feeling with any other food, including gluten, and eggs never used to produce it. Oddly, my digestive health is much BETTER than it used to be. Used to have chronic diarrhea. So I can't account for this. On the other hand, I can't deny the seriousness of what I felt, and will be avoiding eggs. What harm will fermented foods cause? I've been eating sauerkraut and kefir. I feel fine with them, and my digestion seems to have improved.

032b342bc20e78d74f3954af570c6258

(50)

on February 23, 2014
at 03:40 AM

Hmm. Wine seems to cause bad hangovers, and onions cause bloating.

Garlic is fine, and I haven't eaten broccoli in a while. None of the four you listed produce the same horrible brain fog that eggs do. What confuses me is that I used to be just fine with eggs.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on February 22, 2014
at 12:15 PM

Consensus seems to be that GSH is an anti-oxidant? GSH is THE antioxidant. The Weston Price Foundation has a good write up.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 12:11 PM

Very screwy metabolism or long term screwey diet, to chase all the GSH out of your brain, or not replace it properly. For the most part, if you dont eat something, the body cannabilizes it. And taurine doesn't _stop_ GSH synthesis, it just limits it. Consensus seems to be that GSH is an anti-oxidant, as is taurine. Protects against alcohol for example. Thats probably why its so important to the brain. I think its an important nutrient, but I don't think your going to run into situations like those rat very commonly. As I said, if you had no BBB membrane, too much salt would wreck you.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 12:08 PM

Here's another more easily comprehensible illustration of the synthesis ->

http://jxb.oxfordjournals.org/content/55/398/837/F1.large.jpg

And you may appreciate this:

http://www.biochemj.org/bj/269/0659/2690659.pdf

I do understand that taurine can downregulate GSH, at a cellular level. But that doesn't mean that the BBB suddenly falls apart. That research showing degradation, was a powerful inhibition of GSH in the brain - including recycled GSH. Pushing out everything that was already there. Like it takes many years to get alzheimers from low fat intake, it would take some.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 11:57 AM

BTW, those splits are not supposed to be either or splits, but "both" splits.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on February 22, 2014
at 11:57 AM

Yeah man. MTHR nature is weird. Not my charts. Interesting stuff though, eh?

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 11:56 AM

Lets try this instead :-

http://www.fasebj.org/content/13/10/1169/F5.large.jpg

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 11:54 AM

That second cycle/pathway diagram is a bit weird. The cortisol part connects to what? the kidneys? and the SOUX/suphites part, what? the liver? In fact they are both a bit weird.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on February 22, 2014
at 11:51 AM

The best leader's work is done when the people say "we did it ourselves."

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on February 22, 2014
at 11:43 AM

Figure A: http://i.imgur.com/TRqbs5X.jpg

Put your finger on the top of the image. Trace it to the bottom. You just traced a GSH synthesis path.

Figure B: http://i.imgur.com/cImsEud.jpg

Put your finger on the purple square. You just found the transsulfuration path to the sulfite oxidase enzymes in the cycle.

I can't explain this any simpler.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 11:37 AM

Well, for all the difficulty communicating, when I did undestand what you were referring to it inspired thought and learning. My other answer below is entirely inspired by this conversation. So its not all bad, lol.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 11:34 AM

Rocket and computer science are both simple next to biology, IMO :P Okay, now holes in your nutrition, sure that's a real possibility. Primarily you'd expect that from someone who doesn't eat much animal protein (which has a complete set of aminos). Toxins and microbes? Maybe. Hard to say, one way or the other, but possible I suppose. Genetic disposition? Well that would be an unfortunate gene! It would probably screw you pretty fast. And you'd have to carefully monitor diet. An electrolyte imbalance in the brain would cause serious havoc. For example sodium or calcium.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on February 22, 2014
at 11:21 AM

Life is a journey. Enjoy it.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on February 22, 2014
at 11:10 AM

We're not talking rocket / computer science here.

I agree, this is a messy dialogue, haha. The idea is that if you have genetic predispositions, or you have holes in your dietary nutrition, or if you're exposed to certain toxins and microbes, you become more susceptible to neurological disease. Once you breach a certain level, then your diet will become increasingly relevant in your strategy toward optimal health. This might require you back of eggs for a minute in certain rare contexts.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 11:05 AM

Look at your use of the words "sulphur pathway" for example. What does that even mean? I still have no idea. If you use words in a way that _no one_ else does, to refer to concepts and science you don't understand fully yourself. Your basically bluffing a selected bit of hobbyist academic google research as detailed full specialist knowledge, while using terms nobody understands. Represent things as they are, be honest.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 11:00 AM

I mean this honestly. Look at how long it took me to even grasp what you were referring to. I understand the concepts perfectly - my comprehension is fine. But your ability to communicate, made it take most of an afternoon, and me doing my own thinking/googling on the topic, to realize that you were talking about the speculative theory that oxidation can lower Gluthione. If you really understood the science, or the concept, you'd have pointed me straight to the relevant source. Instead I basically had to interpret your scientific word salad.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 10:57 AM

Nope, its not. Semantics is the meaning of the words we use to communicate. If you use them incorrectly, your not properly communicating. Otherwise you could just say "jubetr mertsour sirsl;dus wlso ros". The way you communicate around these concepts would be highly confusing to anyone, it sound like word salad. It sounds meaningless. Like you have no idea what your talking about, which is only partially true. You have some vague idea of what your talking about, even if you misrepresent your level of comprehension and get ahead of yourself.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on February 22, 2014
at 10:06 AM

Obvious comment is obvious.

I was referring to the permeability of things you don't want entering. Permeable to toxins that should not be allowed entrance.

I could have said increased.. it's all the same. Again, you're focused on semantics. Pretentious college education at work.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 10:04 AM

Well for future reference "permeability" means something getting through a membrane. Thats more or less what membranes do, and its the whole point in the BBB membrane - to let some stuff through. What you should have said is "increased permeability", which again is distinct from the action mao, and various transport mechanisms. Its very hard to tell what you are talking about much of the time. Your smart, but try not to get ahead of your comprehension.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 09:59 AM

As a non-essential nutrient, that should only happen when you lack cystiene (GSH deficit) or glutamate in order to make it. Unless this oxiditive stress theory is correct (questionable given the evidence), or I have missed something, but that would also appear to be in extreme circumstances in the literature. Basically it appears like your speculating. Which is fine, but you don't present it as wild speculation at all, you present it as a firm fact.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on February 22, 2014
at 09:52 AM

Last post. If you're operating at a GSH deficit (rate limited by excess (cbs upreg / suox defects sending production down the taurine path) or inadequate cysteine for GSH production), and you're producing sulfites without conversion to sulfates, life is going to get foggy.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 09:48 AM

Would seem to be the source of the speculation that oxidative stress might or might not lower glutathione. But there's no proof. Could just be a lack of cystiene, or glutamate, these are really really sick people, it could just be a basic nutritional deficiency (ironically, eggs would help if that was the case)

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 09:46 AM

This "Low glutathione is commonly observed in wasting and negative nitrogen balance,[44] as seen in cancer, HIV/AIDS, sepsis, trauma, burns and athletic overtraining.....However, studies in many of these conditions have not been able to differentiate between low glutathione as a result of acutely (as in septic patients) or chronically (as in HIV) increased oxidative stress and increased pathology as a result of preexisting deficiencies."

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 09:44 AM

This might serve as a basic starting point, for actual communication regarding, whatever it is your talking about:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutathione

It appears the cystiene is only nutritional building block (+glutamate). Which is interesting because it more implies that a lack of eggs could damage your BBB. But then again, being a non-essential nutrient, and entirely synthesized by demand, there is not really the possibility of a deficiency. Any deficiency would be a cystiene or glutamate deficiency.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 09:37 AM

What is that cellular metabolic cycle/pathway in the picture named? Do you understand how that cycle works? What is the connection between synthetic GSH depletors, and a natural synthesis pathway? Point me to the name of the metabolic cycle/pathway works.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on February 22, 2014
at 09:37 AM

High school dropout, haha.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 09:32 AM

Whats your academic background? You sound like someone who throws together ideas from the internet. Intelligent, but not fully comprehending the words or concepts your using. Permeability is the whole function of the BBB membrane. If nothing got through, we would all be brain dead.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on February 22, 2014
at 09:31 AM

You'll figure it out.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 09:23 AM

And your sulfur connection was something I wanted explaining, but sadly, you did not answer. What cycle or system are you talking about? What does this "

glutathione could be decreased by stress on your sulfur pathways" mean? What is a "sulfur pathway" are you walking about a neurotransmitter pathway, and metabolic cycle? which cycle? What kind of stress? Oxiditive stress? I have to admit that I do find the way that you talk and relate a little like word salad. It lacks specificity and clarity.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 09:19 AM

I started talking about the mao inhibitors in tobacco (and those mao inhibitors are not in fact toxic, although nicotine is, it has minor mao effect), not you. And this has nothing to do with increasing permeability anyway, it is to do with decreasing enzymes that prevent transport.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 09:17 AM

I have always believe in BBB permeability. Ive always believed in mao inhibitors. Otherwise our brains wouldn't work at all. Your brain needs chemicals to function. Loads of them. They go in there all the time.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on February 22, 2014
at 09:15 AM

This would be a good article. Poor rats.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023%2FA%3A1021191729865

Here's the diagram:

http://i.imgur.com/TRqbs5X.jpg

If you encourage the path to go far to the left, it's going to get foggy.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on February 22, 2014
at 09:04 AM

Ok ok.. bringing it back around.

You had posted that you didn't believe BBB permeability was real. (It is.) You posted that toxic stressors like tobacco did not increase BBB permeability, so I posted a link showing heavy metal accumulation (it does.) You posted that this didn't have much to do with eggs, so I explained that glutathione could be decreased by stress on your sulfur pathways if they were damaged (genetically / nutritionally / environmentally), thus, increased toxin load on the nervous system (endogenous and exogenous.)

Nope, haha.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 08:55 AM

The redox cycle makes glutathione from l-cysteine and glutamate apparently (plus glycene and ATP).

Your talking about oxidative phosphorylation producing ATP?

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on February 22, 2014
at 08:46 AM

Throw some sulfur and cysteine in front of glutathione production with COMT upregulation and you get a nice dose of taurine from your methyl donors instead. Without all that GSH, incoming toxins for your brain. With stress on the SUOX path and a lack of nutrient co-factors, you're dealing with neurotoxic sulfites.

If you fall into the category of non optimal SUOX function, eggs aren't your friend.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 08:44 AM

Reference for biotins easy crossing of the blood brain barrier -

Mock, Donald M. Biotin. [book auth.] Maurice Edward Shils and Moshe Shike. Modern Nutrition in Health and Disease

. s.l.: Lippincott Williams & Wilkins, 2006. ISBN 0781741335, 9780781741330.

Although a google will show the same. There is no "leaky brain" here, not that such a term isn't nonsense, the biotin the anti-nutrient binds to crosses the BBB easily, all the time, in normal people. So my guess is, that its causing a temporary deficiency in biotin.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 08:40 AM

Lethargy and depression are also signs of biotin deficiency...

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 08:38 AM

Because of the molecular mechanisms of the brain, it seems unlikely, to me, that this avidin bound biotin would be utilize in the brain - but its possible, that this would cause a brain local deficiency. And biotin does have neurological functions, including....cognition. So my guess, is actually that this theory, while distorted, has some merit. If you had leaky gut, you;d be getting bound biotin. The brain being fairly precise molecularly would probably refuse to use it, merely break it down - and then you'd have a temporary lack of real biotin. All theory, but it sounds plausible

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 08:34 AM

The blood brain barrier is basically tiny blood vessels. Some things must be carried though (mao enzymes do this), some can pass through on their own. An example of a mineral than cannot pass without a carrier is magnesium. Sodium, unlike magensium, passes through the membrane without any carrier. Interestingly, this egg anti-nutrient doesn't even bind to minerals. It binds to biotin, a b vitamin - and interestingly, this biotin, has its own transport system - its not blocked at all, in anyone.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on February 22, 2014
at 08:29 AM

Yeah, the eggs being the actual problem due to a permeable BBB is a long shot. That's probably not OP's problem.

But, look into people who follow a low sulfur diet, why they do it, and where eggs are on that list. It's far from hokey.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on February 22, 2014
at 08:16 AM

Agree to agree.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 08:15 AM

Because this is exactly why smoking is anti-depressive, and anti-parkinsons - it increases brain dopamine via mao-b inhibition (which is also how smoking enhances the pleasurable effects of nicotine, and becomes so addictive, not because of dopamine, but because of mu opiod effects produced by the nicotine being enhanced much the same as a mao-b plus morphine combo)

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 08:14 AM

Well I can explain that. Dopamine is connected to parkinsons (and problem solving, and motivation, and psychosis). The more active the brain region is, the less it decays. Mao-b blocks dopamine precursors like tyrosine. Dopamine can also get into the brain via PEA.. So its not really the mao-b that's causing aging directly, its a decreased chemical input into a brain region, leading to underactivation of a brain region. Use it or lose it, same as your muscles. Indeed taking a mao-b does lower your risk of these diseases though, which is why the tobacco alkaloids are being studied ..

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on February 22, 2014
at 08:14 AM

Damage in this machinery -- http://i.imgur.com/ZbSdz9f.jpg

Hell, even stress.

http://mastcellmaster.com/documents/Brain-Inflammation/MastcellsBBB.pdf

You're looking at this as a binary on / off barrier with too much emphasis on MAO, where it's more of a system with a gradient of possibilities for kinks in the noggin's armor.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 08:09 AM

What are the other aspects of blood brain barrier permeability?

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on February 22, 2014
at 08:08 AM

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Arsenic+trioxide%3A+safety+issues+and+their+management&l=1

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 08:08 AM

Thats what mao-inhibition is really for. its to prevent single large dose neurotoxins, like tyramine or glutamine. For general proteins the brain has its own ezymes. But anti-nutrients bind to minerals. I am not aware of the BBB having any bearing on minerals, my understanding, possibly limited, is that it is for proteins.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on February 22, 2014
at 08:04 AM

Yeah man, mao-b ages your brain. Xenoestrogens cut back your A and dial up the B for you. Incoming alzheimers / parkinson's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_oxidase_B#Effects_of_deficiency_in_humans

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 08:00 AM

Live longer due to mao-b? Cellular starvation mode is the only thing I know of that promotes anti-aging.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 07:58 AM

Interesting.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on February 22, 2014
at 07:55 AM

MAO is but one aspect of BBB permeability. The keyword is inflammation.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on February 22, 2014
at 07:54 AM

Sergey's wife (from google) started a genetics company 23andme. It's not the best error-free data, but it's cheap and will get you going. Google invested in the company a while back, more recently the FDA shut em down.

You spit in a tube, mail it to them, login and download your file, run it through promethease, and grab some coffee.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 07:53 AM

I don't see the relevance to eggs. I am just trying to get any coherent sense scientifically of what is being claimed. Where did you get taught that mao inihibitors, or the blood brain barrier, blocks either heavy metals or minerals?

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 07:51 AM

Does anyone have a reference showing that the bbb even blocks minerals? So far as I was taught, it blocks proteins and aminos.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 07:43 AM

Avidin, probably has no neurotoxic profile, and probably never enters the brain. It probably has no interaction with any neurotransmitter system. And it is probably broken down by one of the thousands of enzymes in the brain focused on metabolism. Arsenic is kinda irrelevant, no one is eating arsenic here. Eggs, is the topic.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 07:40 AM

The above post claims that avidin produces "brain fog" due to "leaky brain" (which so far as I know is stupid, because mao inhibition is not "leaky brain" its mao inhibition, which is an established, already named and well known phenomena, and nothing to be turning into some dumb health bogeyman - in fact it has a great deal of positive effects). Do you not see how poorly considered this post is scientifically? What interaction would avidin even have with the brain, and why wouldn't the native brain enzymes just metabolize it?

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on February 22, 2014
at 07:37 AM

Regardless, the exposure to the chemicals increased the detectable level of heavy metal in the brain, which are supposed to be filtered from the BBB under healthy conditions. Do that to a baby while their brain is developing and you have an autistic child. You're arguing semantics.

The current rate of autism is about 1% in the US. It's plotted on a course toward 5-10% over the next 15 years or so.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 07:36 AM

Where do you get tested for that specific gene? What genetics lab did it? How much did it cost? I would like more info than this.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 07:35 AM

If you should happen to eat a whole load of something neurotoxic, and produce a significant amount of mao inhibition, yes, you would be hurt. But even on pharmaceutical high strength mao inhibitors, that are much stronger than any common effect, such events are relatively rare.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 07:32 AM

Actually thats not strictly true, that first post. Nicotine does have its own very very mild mao inhibition, but its not the primary mao ihibitor in tobacco. There are MUCH more potent mao effects. This is why patches are incomparable to smoked tobacco.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 07:29 AM

Mild mao inhibition is also cause by liquorice, passionflower, and a number of other common things. Mild mao inihibtion is in no way dangerous or bad for you. Full mao inhibition can be flat our fatal.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 07:27 AM

No. Nicotine is not a mao inhibitor. The effects of the mao inhibitor chemicals (such as anasabine, anatabine) in tobacco is largely positive, it produces anti-depressive and anti-parkinsonian effects - these are being investigated as medicines. As I said, there are enzymes INSIDE the brain that metabolize stuff just fine. The mao is just to prevent one off overdoses, of say tyramine ie neurotoxicity. I did a three year degree in psychology. I have spent most of my adult life studying, as a hobby the effects of various drugs and neurotransmitters in the brain.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on February 22, 2014
at 07:05 AM

Hence, tobacco users accumulate greater toxins than cannabis users inside their brain tissue. I just started studying this stuff a few weeks ago.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23475432

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on February 22, 2014
at 07:05 AM

I have my raw genetic data. Snpedia.com

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 07:02 AM

Who tested you for that gene you think you have? And yeah, as I said, there are loads enzymes inside the brain that also metabolize things. The mao is primarily to stop a load going in too fast at once, to control the rate of entry (as with tyramine). The main effect of mild mao inihibition is anti-depression, anti-parkinsons, and an increase in the effects of certain drugs. So this "leaky brain" thing to me, still sounds like the biggest bunch of balony ive heard for awhile, personally, but ill try and keep an open mind, wait until someone posts some primary source or something.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 06:58 AM

So is tobacco. It creates about a 30-40 mao inhibition, which is in no way dangerous, nor is it "leaky BBB". It doesn't fully inhibit, the stuff is still stopped, and also removed, once in the brain (there are a variety of enzymes that metabolize stuff inside the brain itself). All it does is exert anti-depressant effects (and possibly prevents parkinsons, as well as increases addiction). A number of classical anti-depressents are mao inhibitors. A fully inhibited mao system would make certain things, like cheeze, cause instant death, via tyramine. I studied neurobiology at university BTW.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on February 22, 2014
at 06:52 AM

Unfortunately, a leaky BBB is a very real thing and increasingly common as our environment and food supplies accumulate greater amounts of increasingly diverse chemicals combined with genetic and nutritional predispositions.

Xenoestrogens are MAO-A inhibitors. If you could inhibit your MAO-B (olive oil has a good one), you'll live longer.

MAO drains BH4, so if you're low on BH4, guess what, permeable BBB. BH4 is also used for ammonia detox, so load up on ammonia, and you're screwed. (Unfriendly overgrowth produces ammonia, as does CBS upregulation without Mn.)

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 05:28 AM

I was following you until you said leaky blood brain barrier. That sounds pretty darn hokey. The BBB is protected by mao enzymes. If your blood brain barrier was impaired cheeze or aged food would kill you.

56c28e3654d4dd8a8abdb2c1f525202e

(1772)

on February 21, 2014
at 07:25 PM

But if gluten is not present, egg whites are passed through the barrier as amino acids the next time, no?

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on February 21, 2014
at 04:29 PM

If there's a leak in the blood-brain barrier, wouldn't high dose glutamine put glutamate excitotoxins in there?

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2004/05/01/glutamine.aspx

http://www.heartfixer.com/AMRI-Nutrigenomics.htm#Glutamate%20–%20GABA%20Imbalance%20Þ%20Excitotoxicity

Calcium is involved in glutamate toxicity, and copper inhibits conversion of glutamate to GABA (which occurs in the brain.) So, magnesium, vitamin C, and zinc might be useful combined with this strategy.

Medium avatar

(58)

on February 21, 2014
at 03:40 PM

I've never heard it put that way, now I'm terrified that my body is attacking my brain! I do gelatin but l-glutamine causes massive brain fog and depression for me.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on February 21, 2014
at 01:44 PM

If that does turn out to be the case, I was reading that a tiny bit of trace minerals containing ammonia-free molybdenum and boron (in addition to b vitamins, though not the synthetic B6) are useful in helping your SUOX pathways convert toxic sulfites to antioxidant sulfates (especially if you're deficient.)

I'm thinking about adding some trace minerals to my supplementation regimen myself.

Interesting stuff -- http://doctorsdata.com/methylation.pdf

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19142)

on February 21, 2014
at 11:44 AM

+1 this is certainly another possibility.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19142)

on February 21, 2014
at 11:32 AM

Yup, the digestive process takes quite a lot of energy to make your food digestible. Takes more energy for some things than others. But egg whites are known allergens - the avidin they contain is their anti-nutrient.

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9 Answers

1
Medium avatar

on February 27, 2015
at 02:10 PM

Hey guys ??? something that I'm surprised to see very little commentary on across the web, regarding eggs and depression or poor energy issues, is the fact that eggs contain very high levels of choline.

High doses of choline, especially for those who are hypersensitive to choline or prone to depression (acetylcholine, in the brain, that is), can result in??depressive symptoms, sleep disturbances, increases in cortisol levels, etc.

I've personally experienced this effect when??I've consumed too much choline over an extended period of time, and have since abstained from my daily regimen of 3-4 eggs per day.

It's also worth noting that choline has a long half-life in the body, which means two things: 1) after consuming the egggs, it can take a few days??for the symptoms to disappear, and 2) daily egg consumption can have a compound effect.

Here is an excerpt from a psychopharmacology textbook in relation to acetylcholine and depression. It's a bit scientific, but you should get the general idea if you skim through it:

(I can't post direct links yet): acnp.org/g4/GN401000095/CH.html

If this is the case for you, it means that you should be aware of choline-containing foods and supplements. Not to totally avoid them, as we need choline, but to assess your tolerance, and find comfort in knowing the source of your mood disturbance.

0
8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 08:48 AM

Okay, wow, bit of research points to a theory here. Leaky gut = avidin, from egg whites, binding to biotin. Biotin readily crosses the blood brain barrier, but my best guess is the brain wouldn't use bound materials. Too many membranes, chemical lock key systems, etc. What would happen instead is you'd get a localized deficiency in biotin - which is linked generally with poor cognition, depression, lethargy (and motor issues and psychosis at extreme levels).

If you check wikipedia, you'll find that egg whites on there own can cause such symptoms, but normally after a LOT of exposure:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biotin_deficiency

But if we throw in "leaky gut" (a damaged gut membrane that allows anti-nutrients into the body itself), and imagine this bound biotin wasting the BBB transport space for a little while, and not being used, we can easily imagine a temporary, localized deficiency in biotin.

The solution of course being the same as all leaky gut protocols - avoid all anti-nutrients for a while, and down the bone broth regularly (I used bone broth in stews for about a year for my issues).

0
Medium avatar

on February 22, 2014
at 07:29 AM

I've heard Poliquin say that you can reset sensitivity to eggs by excluding them for 6 weeks, then eating them again. Sounds like nonsense to me but there you go. Personally I like eggs but they tend to cause stomach drama.

0
8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 05:25 AM

Choline in eggs usually enhances mental focus. But if you have a strong response to anti-nutrients (how do you do with nuts and seeds? grains?), you may have leaky gut, and need to follow a bone broth protocol for a while and avoid all anti-nutrients. (If your gut has been worn down, the anti-nutrients can get into your system, which produces an immune reaction. The protocol for that is designed to heal your gut, so that it stops happening). You can get choline from beef liver, as an alternative, and that while not so tasty on its own, is beutiful in a home made pate.

0
96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19142)

on February 21, 2014
at 11:43 AM

Egg whites are known allergens - the avidin they contain is their anti-nutrient. Cooking the whites well should disable it, but some folks are allergic to them anyway.

Typically when they ate toast with eggs sometime in the past, the gluten in the barley or wheat signaled zonulin, which caused the gut barrier to open up (a temporary form of leaky gut), then, egg white protein made it across into the blood, and the autoimmune system marked it as an invader - so now you have an allergy to the whites.

Part of the problem is that brain fog is usually a symptom of the blood-brain barrier being leaky - the same way as the gut lining, because it consists of the same types of cells. So your number one priority is to avoid all eggs temporarily until you can heal both your leaky gut and your blood-brain barrier.

You can do this with bone broth - a cup or two a day, and also L-Glutamine (buy it as a powder not as a pill), take something like 5g-10g a day. You can test your blood brain barrier with GABA. If you feel very calm right after you take GABA, you have a leaky blood brain barrier. You'll also want to avoid fermented foods as its flora can also make it past the leaky gut and into the bloodstream.

The brain fog you feel may actually be the autoimmune system attacking not just the egg protein, but also your brain cells, so this is a pretty serious situation. It's the same type of thing that happens if you get brain fog from eating gluten. So, whatever you do, please avoid the stuff for at least a few months before you attempt to reintroduce it.

56c28e3654d4dd8a8abdb2c1f525202e

(1772)

on February 21, 2014
at 07:25 PM

But if gluten is not present, egg whites are passed through the barrier as amino acids the next time, no?

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on February 21, 2014
at 04:29 PM

If there's a leak in the blood-brain barrier, wouldn't high dose glutamine put glutamate excitotoxins in there?

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2004/05/01/glutamine.aspx

http://www.heartfixer.com/AMRI-Nutrigenomics.htm#Glutamate%20–%20GABA%20Imbalance%20Þ%20Excitotoxicity

Calcium is involved in glutamate toxicity, and copper inhibits conversion of glutamate to GABA (which occurs in the brain.) So, magnesium, vitamin C, and zinc might be useful combined with this strategy.

Medium avatar

(58)

on February 21, 2014
at 03:40 PM

I've never heard it put that way, now I'm terrified that my body is attacking my brain! I do gelatin but l-glutamine causes massive brain fog and depression for me.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 05:28 AM

I was following you until you said leaky blood brain barrier. That sounds pretty darn hokey. The BBB is protected by mao enzymes. If your blood brain barrier was impaired cheeze or aged food would kill you.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 22, 2014
at 07:51 AM

Does anyone have a reference showing that the bbb even blocks minerals? So far as I was taught, it blocks proteins and aminos.

032b342bc20e78d74f3954af570c6258

(50)

on February 23, 2014
at 03:40 AM

Hmm, rather interesting, and alarming. Do you have a source/further reading on this, especially your last paragraph? I've never felt this feeling with any other food, including gluten, and eggs never used to produce it. Oddly, my digestive health is much BETTER than it used to be. Used to have chronic diarrhea. So I can't account for this. On the other hand, I can't deny the seriousness of what I felt, and will be avoiding eggs. What harm will fermented foods cause? I've been eating sauerkraut and kefir. I feel fine with them, and my digestion seems to have improved.

0
Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on February 20, 2014
at 09:28 PM

How do you do with wine / broccoli / garlic / onions? Eggs are a good source of sulfur, which could maybe cause brain fog if you're unable to process it well.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19142)

on February 21, 2014
at 11:44 AM

+1 this is certainly another possibility.

032b342bc20e78d74f3954af570c6258

(50)

on February 23, 2014
at 03:40 AM

Hmm. Wine seems to cause bad hangovers, and onions cause bloating.

Garlic is fine, and I haven't eaten broccoli in a while. None of the four you listed produce the same horrible brain fog that eggs do. What confuses me is that I used to be just fine with eggs.

0
Medium avatar

on February 20, 2014
at 08:40 PM

If you have an allergy or sensitivity to them, they can cause brain fog

Medium avatar

on February 27, 2015
at 02:16 PM

Hey Laura – take a look at the comment I just made. I agree with what you say regarding brain fog, but I don't think it's due to an allergy or food sensitivity – I think it's due to the high choline content.

0
Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on February 20, 2014
at 08:37 PM

No brain fog here, sorry I can't offer any advice on that. However, I do find that since eggs are quite low in energy (only about 70 calories each) if I only eat a few of them as a primary meal, I will be extremely fatigued and low on energy. I noticed that eating several of them (at least 4 at a time), along with plenty of fat, makes a much more substantial meal and usually eliminates the fatigue issue in my particular case.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19142)

on February 21, 2014
at 11:32 AM

Yup, the digestive process takes quite a lot of energy to make your food digestible. Takes more energy for some things than others. But egg whites are known allergens - the avidin they contain is their anti-nutrient.

Cbfcdfc9737800314effea0c340e09fe

(0)

on February 25, 2014
at 02:31 AM

Yes, I totally agree.

0
Medium avatar

(213)

on February 20, 2014
at 08:30 PM

What else do you normally eat? I associate egg eating issues with inflammation caused by other foods you are eating. At least that is the way it runs in my family.

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